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Thursday, 16 August 2012
quote [ look for the open letter to wife in the extended.... ]
..............link may be removed but the letter is in the extended.......
Honey,
[porn] [by vahid@8:15pmGMT] [+10 Hot Pr0n] We have been married over three years now. I am filing for legal separation today. After reassessing my feelings for you, and taking a thorough inventory of our relationship, I have decided that it is time to man up, grow a set of testicles, and cut you from my life like the malignant tumor you are. As a courtesy to you, and as fair warning for all women out there, I have posted this on Craigslist hoping you read this letter as you are always reading these rants, and every other woman out there, knows what is coming as the wages of the described course of behavior. Let's start with sex: We were at an amazing resort in French Polynesia on the first day of our honeymoon: over-the-water bungalows, lavish buffets, still, blue lagoons, crystal-clear to the bottom...Wow, was I blown away! Then I had this great idea..."Let's have sex!" I mean, what the hell? It was our honeymoon, after all. "I'm tired." (in your whiny tone) was your response. "Yeah, but it's our honeymoon! We're in paradise, for crying out loud, let's get it on!" "I guess I have to," was your response. Boy, did that make me randy... The next couple of days were a study in sexual procrastination and avoidant behavior on your part. Trying to finagle sex from you had, overnight, become like pulling teeth. Suddenly there were politics involved...not like the entire year before, when you were good to go, 24/7/365. At the risk of presenting as disjointed, or lacking in continuity, let me interrupt my own letter to pose a question at this juncture: What on earth, outside of regular, willing, and adventurous sex, do you think you have to offer a man? Do you think I married you for your company?...your intellect? Do you think I find following you through Target with a shopping cart more interesting than kicking back with my male friends? Do you think you have a single insight into politics, philosophy, religion, life, sports, finance, or general trivia that has ever shed a single photon of illumination upon my perspective? You do not. Let me be clear: there is nothing, besides the promise of regular, enjoyable sex, that I ever wanted from you...that would ever have made me consider committing to you for the rest of my life. Once sex became an unwilling labor for you, I stopped wanting even that. Men want willing sex. Rapists want unwilling sex. Outside of willing, eager participation in sex, you are nothing but a nuisance, a liability, an annoying distraction, interrupting my otherwise constant state of serenity, and my flow of good ideas. Oh, back to my story: It was day four of ten of our honeymoon when you pronounced, "I'm not expected to have sex with you every day." "Of course not," I politely answered. "But this is our honeymoon. We're on the other side of the world, in the South Pacific. People would kill to be where we are right now." I should have noted the huge red flag waving when, some weeks before, you tried to make the case that it would be fun to take some friends along on our honeymoon, and maybe even your grandmother, and we could all hang out the whole time. "Wouldn't that be fun?" Let me answer all women on the planet here and now: Hell no! That would not, by any stretch of the imagination, be fun. It was about the same day that I realized how poor a conversationalist you were. Somehow, over the prior year, when you were fucking me six ways from Sunday, I had overlooked and/or simply rationalized the gigantic reality that you were, quite simply, stupid as a post. Anyway, there I was, ten grand into the most potentially romantic, amorous, and otherwise amazing bonding experience ever put together; and I had as my companion a tyrant who refused to have sex...or who offered nastily, "If you want me to pretend I like it, I will." It was then, immediately, that my eye began to wander. She was the French girl who worked behind the counter at our hotel...an intern from some hotel school program in France. She was a little goofy looking: big, bulgy eyes, a bit of a swayback. Still, she was kind of sexy somehow. Upon checking in, I had thought she was an atypical Frenchie, who was uncharacteristically friendly. There, one evening, as I was exchanging some traveler's checks for the local currency while you laid on your already-becoming-lazy ass in the room, she asked me how my honeymoon was going. I was at a loss for words. I'm sure my facial expression told the whole story. Perceptive creature that she was, she flashed an unmistakable look, and touched my hand for much too long to be accidental. "Have you been to the spa?" she asked me. I had not. "Oh, you really must see it." She said something to her manager in French, and, in no time flat, she was kindly walking me down the darkened path to the spa. Good Lord. It was like those cheesy porn movies of old where the mailman shows up at the door to deliver a "package,", and the lady tenant's towel falls off. It was that easy. Can I just add one more ironic detail? Her name was actually Marie! How poetic is that? Let me ask you something: Did you ever even wonder why I stopped hounding you about sex on our honeymoon? I'm sure you, in your way of rationalizing things, thought that you had won; and that I had accepted your embargo. It was, in fact, simply because that need was being met elsewhere. Two weeks into our sham of a marriage, I was getting serviced somewhere else. As unbelievable as it sounds, it was happening. I have to tell you, more pleasurable than the strange, new, clandestine sex itself, with an otherwise unremarkable woman, was the satisfaction of completely undermining your false and inflated sense of power. Let me assure you: that was just the beginning. I say "unremarkable?" Still, she was certainly one for the check list, and my how the check list has grown, and how those numbers keep moving closer to thirty. Somehow you took on this persona of a wife in control. I listened, almost laughing out loud, as you gave relationship advice to your girlfriends, colleagues and cousins over the phone. You were so confident. Had I closed my eyes, I would have thought Oprah Winfrey was waxing philosophical in the background. After the honeymoon, the drought continued. You grudgingly gave it up once a week for a while. Still, you had become rather critical. You called it "coaching me," or "teaching you what I like." Funny, you had never had a single complaint before we got married. It was all wild and free back then. In a matter of weeks, the occasional sex you were willing to give up became a chore for me, not even worth the effort, too humiliating and frustrating to bother with. Eventually, I lost all interest in you. When I did decide to give it a go, I found myself having to conjure up all sorts of visions of all sorts of illicit encounters in order to be able to perform for you. In contrast, I was having no difficulty whatsoever outside the marriage. Eventually, I was able to use the excitement of my extramarital affairs to conjure up some grudging wood for you. Let me be clear, so that the memories can start to click back into place for you, I have tagged, slept with, and had trysts with almost every restaurant hostess with whom you have ever though I was too friendly. I have followed up on every counter girl, every book clerk, every sales assistant, masseuse and apprentice...even the parts girl at the car dealership, and, yes...one of your very own girlfriends...everyone who ever gave that knowing flash...that tacit go-ahead. I have gone back later. I have talked to them. I have closed the deal with more of them than I would ever have thought possible in my wildest dreams. The head I have received in elevators, in dressing rooms, in staircases, in their apartments (twenty minutes, in-and-out while out running errands); the soccer moms shopping at target...the women I have encountered buying oranges at Whole Foods, or walking their dogs. I swear to you that I have had the most exciting sex of my entire life over the past three years of marriage...and none of it has ever been with you. Now you want a baby. Let me just say that if I were some outsider hearing this story; I would pronounce a complete idiot the man who would stupidly impregnate you. NO!!!, I'm getting out while the getting is good, baby and child support-free. It occurs to me that I may have to pay a year and a half of alimony. Let me say in advance that it will be worth every penny to be rid of you at last. Women of the world, heed this advice. Heed it good; and don't you ever think that you and your magic vagina are the exception to these few very simple rules: Take care of your man. Treat him right. Shower him with love and respect, and yes, I mean take care of his physical needs...satisfy him sexually. Wear him out. If you want to guarantee fidelity in your marriage, there is a simple way to achieve that: Never let your husband leave the house with a single drop of semen remaining in his body. Trust me, if he is not dumping it at home, he is dumping it somewhere, unless he is a hopelessly unattractive, beat-down loser. When you use sex for power and control, you do damage that cannot be undone. When you withhold sex and affection from your husband you drive a wedge between you and your man. Not only that, you drive him elsewhere to get his needs met. It is that simple. For the record, let me assure you that the world is literally brimming with women who are very happy to be a friendly port in the long, nasty storm. There are people out there who take satisfaction in undermining your hollow little conquest of controlling the sex in your marriage. Let me further assure you that there is no such thing as controlling your man sexually. The simple reality is that, if he has any game at all, and does not have a parasitic twin growing out of his forehead, the world is full of other offers. You can only control whether he is getting it at home or not. If you want to control your man, give him all the sex he wants. If you want to lose control of your man, go ahead and cut him off. Let me add a further tidbit of wisdom at no extra charge. There is an old saying: Women get married hoping everything will change, men get married hoping everything will stay the same. Women, if, somewhere in the back of your mind, you are waiting for the day when your male partner is bound by contract, finances, and perhaps biology, so that you can cut off the sex and become a mini tyrant...don't get married. Join a convent. Work at an orphanage or a pre-school. Adopt a child on your own. Find some way to fulfill your maternal instincts that does not involve marrying under false pretenses. Your man would not have stuck around before the marriage if it were loveless and sexless. He also does not want a marriage that is sexless. There are a million things you can do to have your child or children without suckering in some poor dope, too naive to foresee your evil plan. Are you an honorable person? Then live honorably. Do not live in breach of the spirit of the marriage contract. Trust me, the sex you were willingly giving up as a sell job before the marriage is the only commodity you have to barter that makes it worthwhile for your man to tolerate the rest of what comes with you. Don't sucker a man in, and then expect him to comply with your skewed and artificial construct of fidelity. If you breach the spirit of the marriage contract, you lose all trust and intimacy with your man. If man were to change his nature, our species would vanish in less than a hundred years. Cutting your man off is not only disrespectful, it is simply counterproductive. The quality of your relationship, his attachment to you, his dedication and sexual fidelity, will be determined by his feelings of access, of being welcomed and embraced, of desirability. We are who we are. We are hard-wired creatures of nature. It is biological. Deal with it, or don't; but don't' do it under false pretenses. Let me further comment, for the reader' information, that, after the marriage, you, Pumpkin', stopped cooking. You stopped cleaning anything. You don't do dishes. You don't vacuum. You don't dust. You don't do laundry. You leave your dishes all over the house. You spend money like it is going out of style; and nothing ever makes you happy, except unlimited shopping. You infidelity manifests itself on a thousand fronts that are not sexual. Let me ask you something: what good are you to anyone? Good luck finding your next sucker, now that you're 31, fat, and much less attractive than before. By the way, I shall not miss your nagging, or your complaining, or your "making me a better man," as you like to call it. I shall not miss your car driving tips. I have purchased a new flat screen TV and home entertainment system that will neither nag me, not interrupt me while I'm watching the occasional game. I have also decided to splurge on a cleaning lady in my new place. Finally, I'll have a woman who gets things done...and the price will be known and agreed upon up-front. So, Honey...Pumpkin...you stupid, narcissistic cow...how do you feel now? Do you feel powerful? Or is the helium beginning to seep from your balloon? How many of you women sitting are at your desk at this very moment are wondering if it is not your husband who wrote this letter? Do you know what's strange? I used to think infidelity was wrong. Now I think it is perfectly right and justified. If your husband is out fooling around; it's because you are not doing your job. Not only is he justified in fooling around, you have it coming. You deserve it. One breach of contract deserves another. Men of the world, a woman who changes the terms of your sexual arrangement after marriage deserves infidelity. She plays a two-edged game...violating her implied duty as a wife, yet still holding you to the letter of your contract. It is the oldest, cheapest manipulation in the book: and, very likely, the root cause of the oldest profession in the world. The Oxford English Dictionary defines infidelity as "unfaithfulness or disloyalty to a person," among other things. Let me redefine it for you. Fidelity is living and being, on a daily basis, contract or no contract, the person you have represented yourself to be. In business contracts, we use the term "good faith" a lot to describe the expectation that both parties of a contract will behave in such a manner as will benefit both parties as much as possible. For instance, if a record company signs a contract with an artist, both parties agree to act "in good faith," meaning that the company will do everything in its power to represent the artist favorably, and sell records. The artist, in return, agrees to put their best efforts into their records, their performances, and whatever promotional activities may be expected. Without the expectation of that somewhat ambiguous "good faith," either party could choose, at any time, to not honor the spirit of the contract, thereby creating disadvantage for both parties. "Good faith," is an absolute must. A marriage is the same. Perhaps the "faithful" part of the vows goes deeper than sexual fidelity. I believe it means you put your best foot forward, always, and in all things. I believe it means that you do not allow yourself to become a fat lazy, nagging, complaining toddler who doesn't want to have sex with your partner any more. Any deviation from whom you represented yourself to be before, and upon signing the contract is, in fact, a failure to meet the implied "good faith" of the marriage contract. Any false personality you create in order to bag your partner, and then shed as soon as you're married is a misrepresentation. We need to stop defining infidelity as sexual only. Infidelity has many faces, and many manifestations. When you stop trying as a partner, or decide to renege on what you previously offered, you are in fact being disloyal, unfaithful and false to your partner. The idea that unfaithfulness is physical, via the sex act only is a semantic game we need to no longer play. Husbands need to start calling their wives on it. I would go as far as to say that prenups need to include specifics as to sexual frequency, sexual behavior, including attitude, and division of household chores. After all has been said and done, it may surprise you all to know that, in my humble opinion, most men don't fool around because of the sex itself, it's really about the validation, the feelings of being wanted and valued. Women, if you want your man to seek his validation elsewhere, then you know exactly what to do. Cut him off. Men, make it part of your own personal credo to fool around if your wife cuts you off. Let all women know that they have it coming. Let them know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the minute they cut you off, protest, make a fuss, or become grudging about sex, you will walk out that front door and get it somewhere else. -E |
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soulecho
said @ 8:18pm GMT on 16th Aug
"This posting has been flagged for removal." Quick dog, hurry up and change the link before you get a shitstorm of downmods. |
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sanepride
said @ 8:20pm GMT on 16th Aug
Based on the quote I'm pretty sure I'd have downmodded it anyway. |
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vahid
said @ 8:21pm GMT on 16th Aug
read it before yappin. |
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sanepride
said @ 8:31pm GMT on 16th Aug
-1 giant wall of text. Is the whole thing just this guy complaining to his wife about his marriage? No matter how funny or witty he is, who cares? |
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lilmookieesquire
said @ 8:51pm GMT on 16th Aug
Why did this guy marry her if he was getting sex once a week and that was so important to him? Giving him credit that he might know what he's doing in bed, given that he has "slept with a number approaching 30 women" (really? You're assigning a numerical value and rounding up?)... it sounds like they were totally sexually-incompatible. Anyone taking advice from this guy deserves what they are getting. This guy is a complete idiot. I look forward to the woman (whom I'd like to think has been cheating on him for years) using this stupid fucking rant as court evidence, and gouging him for all he's worth, when he could have just quietly divorced her, carried on with his life, and fared far better for himself. |
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sanepride
said @ 9:10pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:1 Funny]
Now I'm even happier I didn't bother to read it. I know actual people with far more compelling stories than this. Y'know what the real tragedy here is? That vahid didn't bother to use one of your handy hidey-boxes. |
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lilmookieesquire
said @ 9:14pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:1 Insightful]
It's actually quite a funny read in that this guy's life seems like one bad decision after another. |
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Ankylosaur
said @ 9:34pm GMT on 16th Aug
>:# |
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lilmookieesquire
said @ 10:18pm GMT on 16th Aug
I am the mircosoft of hidey-box technology. |
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vahid
said @ 10:31pm GMT on 16th Aug
not cool enough for the hidey box...but please teaches the old guy. thanx. |
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lilmookieesquire
said @ 10:50pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:1 Informative]
Me too. That's why I made it copy and pasteable in my profile :) |
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Ankylosaur
said @ 1:28am GMT on 17th Aug
>:# |
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lilmookieesquire
said @ 7:41am GMT on 17th Aug
Which is not as good as anky's profile! |
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b
said @ 1:52am GMT on 17th Aug
[Score:2]
I feel like you misread some of the details. He said he was getting sex "24/7/365" before the marriage then for a while once a week afterwards. While I don't condone his actions, I know somewhat the ordeal he may have gone through with his wife. Before my wife and I were married (we are now separated) we had sex four or five days a week, sometimes two or three times a day. On our week long honeymoon? Once. ONE time. I chalked it up to her being drained from a wedding that kind of stressed her out, the travel, being in a new country. Unfortunately the sexual drought continued, sometimes seeing me going without for a month or two months. Oh sure, here and there there were little spurts and at one point she changed her medication and things got bette ended our marriage for some bullshit reason I won't go into. So I know exactly how this dude feels, if this letter is real. While I wouldn't go about doing what he did, I can understand why. I'm now dating a very nice lady who seems very enthusiastic about sex and doesn't want to get married, even to attain citizenship, so I'm hopeful that our sex life will remain fulfilling and fun. |
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conga
said @ 2:55am GMT on 17th Aug
"little spurts" |
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EPT
said @ 4:55am GMT on 17th Aug
Love comes in spurts. |
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lilmookieesquire
said @ 7:40am GMT on 17th Aug
Well explained. Thank you. |
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sanepride
said @ 8:18pm GMT on 16th Aug
"This posting has been flagged for removal." |
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granitewitch
said @ 8:19pm GMT on 16th Aug
Man I hate it when Craigslist does that... |
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tsujaelttilsane
said @ 8:27pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:2 Funny]
Behold the sanctity of marriage! |
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KingPellinore
said @ 8:35pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:5 Insightful]
tl;dr Guy cheats on wife during honeymoon. Rationalizes behavior and divorces her 3 years later. |
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snowfox
said @ 8:53pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:2 Informative]
It's funnier when you remember that US marriages last 6 years on average. |
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Ankylosaur
said @ 9:36pm GMT on 16th Aug
It's funnier when you remember that human life is fleeting and all of them—and you, too—will be dead soon enough. |
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lilmookieesquire
said @ 10:20pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:4 Funny]
That's just saur grapes. |
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thizzwardo
said @ 5:06pm GMT on 17th Aug
yeah, he lost me at the only thing he wanted from his wife was regular sex. No wonder that shit didn't work out. |
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granitewitch
said @ 8:37pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:3 Insightful]
It made me sad. I've been through similar shit with my first marriage, which makes me somewhat sympathetic to the guy, but at the same time makes me wonder how he didn't see the red flags right off. It also makes me wonder how many other horrible marriages there are out there going like this. I know that it's schadenfreude, so there's some humor in it for some people anyway, but it still makes me feel sad for everyone involved. |
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snowfox
said @ 8:42pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:2 Insightful]
I don't see anything sad about this. Just shallow assholes who have no idea how to be honest with their spouse. Anyone who's marrying only for sex and nothing else is better off not to marry. And anyone marrying just for money is better off getting their own career. Wife and husband here both kind of sound like pricks, though husband moreso. |
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granitewitch
said @ 8:46pm GMT on 16th Aug
I agree. I was writing my other reply when you posted this. The guy is an asshat, no doubt about that. And a person who marries for money ends up earning it ever goddam day. |
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lilmookieesquire
said @ 9:00pm GMT on 16th Aug
It is sad. The guy sounds like an asshole who learned a life lesson about 20 years too late (and clearly by writing this, has a few more life lessons to learn). The wife sounds like she married a complete and total asswipe that can't just end things like an adult (but at least she might be able to do well for herself on alimony after that "rant"). Anyway, it's hard to start over. I'm pretty sure she'll land on her feet, but this guy looks like he's going to be making constant mistakes and exercising extremely poor judgement for the rest of his life. |
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spite48
said @ 10:39pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:1 Insightful]
Exactly. This is not a reason to marry someone: "there is nothing, besides the promise of regular, enjoyable sex, that I ever wanted from you..." |
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ComposerNate
said @ 6:01pm GMT on 18th Aug
I read that as untrue, but purposefully hurtful. |
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cb361
said @ 7:18am GMT on 17th Aug
[Score:1 Interesting]
A lot of people run their lives according to a script they composed to picked-up in childhood. Or so I gather - my own life has panned out so unexpectedly that I'm pretty sure I don't have a life script. I suspect this guy's 'life script' involved getting married at a certain point. But that doesn't mean that he actually wanted to be married, or wanted to wait for the right person. Just that it was time to get married, and he choose the apparent best prospect. And it's no wonder it turned out badly. But yeah, they both sound like pricks. |
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lilmookieesquire
said @ 8:38pm GMT on 16th Aug
You might want to try using some hidey html (you can find it in my profile and other places) so people don't have to scroll down for 15 minutes to comment :) |
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snowfox
said @ 8:39pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:4 Insightful]
No wonder he got cut off. This guy is a jerk who only valued his wife for sex but never admitted it. He lied and pretended he liked who she was. She probably figured it out. She's better off without him. If anyone, man or woman, thinks they can coerce another party into sex, they are an asshole. I wonder, did he ever try talking with her honestly? Did he ever state his needs, find out why they weren't being met, and try to work out a solution? It doesn't sound like he did. |
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lilmookieesquire
said @ 8:55pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:4 Insightful]
To be fair, she clearly has horrible taste in men. And to be fair, I'm often coerced into sex, and I really don't mind. That said, this guy reminds me of a freshly licensed teen-aged driver who got into a car wreck and is blaming the car. |
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valen85
said @ 9:04pm GMT on 16th Aug
I'm always pleasantly surprised and encouraged that, despite its butthurtery and faggotry, SE hasn't become the misogynist nightmare that is the rest of the internet. |
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lilmookieesquire
said @ 9:12pm GMT on 16th Aug
It's like we're trolling the internets! |
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cb361
said @ 11:02pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:3 Funny]
Every day that I haven't disappointed you is a day that was worth living. |
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theolypse
said @ 2:58am GMT on 17th Aug
Are you trying to make him make an inverse error? I'm on to you. |
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cb361
said @ 9:18am GMT on 17th Aug
I'm just pointing out how distressed I would be if valen85 were to weigh me up and find me wanting. |
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dreamingzephyr
said @ 11:47pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:1 Underrated]
I think having a strong contingent of outspoken and insightful women as active community members helps. Many women I meet elsewhere on the internet are little more than mascots. |
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DarkShadowRavenDragonGrrl69
said @ 3:14am GMT on 17th Aug
That said... tits or GTFO! |
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azazel
said @ 6:52am GMT on 17th Aug
[Score:1 Funny]
I once joined an LJ (this was a while ago... like, 2004) community for female WoW players. I was mostly curious why they refused men access (my own profile has been genderless for ages, since I saw no reason to specify it), but never did find out. I joined just in time for the entire community to be in an uproar that they'd allowed a transgender woman to join; people were complaining that "He might look like a woman, but he's a guy! He's not had his operation yet!" -- as if what is (or isn't) between your legs is the one defining characteristic of women. It was very ugly, to be honest. Especially when reading that the community was for women who wanted to get away from the abuse and ridicule men threw at women whenever gaming was mentioned. Most of the discussions/posts were about generic WoW stuff -- raiding, items, complaining about stupid players. Nothing you wouldn't see anywhere else, really. And then there was this huge post that tried to make a woman feel as bad as possible because she wasn't born with the right stuff between her legs. Disgusting. I wrote a rather lengthy comment in the post, explaining why everyone who agreed with the "she's a guy because she's got a dick" POV were horrible shitheads that I wouldn't want to spend a single day with -- because honestly just remembering their behavior makes me furious -- and that they should all feel ashamed and fucking bad about themselves, and ended it with something along the lines of "I'm glad not all women are self-righteous assholes like you all are, because you're a fucking disgrace to you, this community, and your entire fucking gender", or something along those lines. I left the community after that, or maybe I were banned. I still have the woman's MSN address though; she contacted me after I got banned and said that I, along with a few other commenters, made a horrible day better. We stayed in touch for a while after that. And I completely forgot why I was writing this post. Yes, women! I'm glad we have them here! I'm also glad they're not raging assholes like the ones in that community. |
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bruceski
said @ 7:02am GMT on 17th Aug
I'm a straight white male, but in college I wound up in a social circle with a lot of -- if I'm going to put them all under one label let's say "other" -- who I've kept in touch with and find myself interested in various discussions. It's interesting how various groups will form around promoting inclusion (or protesting exclusions) and then say "but not you." If you'll pardon the expression, bi/transsexuals get it from all sides. |
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dreamingzephyr
said @ 3:22pm GMT on 19th Aug
So true. Anti-bisexual sentiment is strong within many parts of the gay community. |
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cb361
said @ 7:12am GMT on 17th Aug
[Score:1 Insightful]
I like to think that I wouldn't be a raging misogynist, even if there weren't outspoken and insightful women around to keep me on the straight-and-narrow. |
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EPT
said @ 4:50am GMT on 17th Aug
[Score:1 Insightful]
We seem to be accommodating the homophobia a bit more, though. |
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cb361
said @ 7:19am GMT on 17th Aug
[Score:1 Insightful]
That's a really gay thing to say, dude. |
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CapnSilver
said @ 6:18am GMT on 17th Aug
For someone into MMA you're very homophobic |
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Naruki
said @ 4:38am GMT on 17th Aug
[Score:1 Insightful]
Note to self: lilmookie is susceptible to sexual coercion. |
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happiest_sadist
said @ 9:43pm GMT on 17th Aug
[Score:1 Insightful]
s/susceptible to/eager for/ |
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Naruki
said @ 7:25am GMT on 18th Aug
Yerhonor, he was practically BEGGING for it! |
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spite48
said @ 8:00am GMT on 18th Aug
Has anyone tried begging for sex? Outside of marriage, we may be able to open up a whole new type of begging! "Excuse me sir, I lost my job and I could really use a blowjob." |
snowfox
said @ 5:29pm GMT on 18th Aug
[Score:2 WTF]
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mechanical contrivance
said @ 12:03am GMT on 19th Aug
So that's what ketracel white is! |
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b
said @ 1:57am GMT on 17th Aug
So... just out of curiousity, do you think she found out before the marriage? During the honeymoon? Or later? Because if it was before the marriage, she is just as shitty as the guy. |
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Navier-Strokes
said @ 11:08am GMT on 17th Aug
I would say they both are assholes. He for going into the marriage only wanting her for sex, she for misleading him into thinking she loved having sex with him. I say misled because her M.O. appears to have changed drastically as soon as the honeymoon began. |
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Milkman666
said @ 8:42pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:1 Funny]
Jesus, this is not so much funny as it is sad. A presumably grown man debasing himself by throwing a tantrum. |
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scojam
said @ 9:12pm GMT on 16th Aug
Verbal diarrhea. I have worked with about a dozen women who joyously off on their honeymoons but came back quite sad and depressed. Only heard a three of the stories but I imagine most often someone's expectations were not fullfilled, his or hers, who knows. One the girl found out the new husband was gay. Another the guy was quite deep in debt. I heard from one of the girl's work friends that the guy had a one inch dick. You'd have thought she would have known about that beforehand eh? I asked my former wife as we were separating what it was about me that she found attractive in the first place. She said I was everything she ever wanted to change in a man. I guess she got me changed and then didn't what the new man. So this couple is getting married. Standing at the alter the best man said to the groom "I've never seen you look so happy." The groom replied, "I am happy. Last night I got the best blow job I have ever had in my life, from the woman I'm about to marry". At the front of the church the maid of honour said to the bride, "I've never seen you look so happy." The bride replied, "I am happy. Last night I gave my very last blow job." It was the happiest day of her life. She arrived at the church right on time. She walked up the aisle, he was waiting before the alter. She kissed him on the cheek, smiled and closed the lid. |
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lilmookieesquire
said @ 9:20pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:1 Underrated]
Gay vs debt vs one inch dick, personally, I'd take the dick. There are plenty of ways to over come that. |
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valen85
said @ 10:08pm GMT on 16th Aug
As a heterosexual man, if those were the three choices i'd had to make, i'd agree with you. |
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lilmookieesquire
said @ 10:13pm GMT on 16th Aug
Although I do highly envy my gay friends on several different levels. |
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theolypse
said @ 3:00am GMT on 17th Aug
You'd choose the wife with the one-inch dick? Tsk. Such low standards. |
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atter_cob
said @ 3:05am GMT on 17th Aug
[Score:1 Underrated]
Actually, a wife with a one inch clit would be awesome! |
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rndmnmbr
said @ 1:07pm GMT on 17th Aug
I love big clits. They're so much fun to play with. |
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Milkman666
said @ 9:30pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:2 Insightful]
Marriage is a formal declaration to the community of a bond that has formed between two people. Its a consequence of living with and loving another human being for reasons that are not based on fear or loneliness. It's a recognition of something that already exists. Making it some sort of goal misses the point. |
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ckfahrenheit
said @ 5:52am GMT on 17th Aug
Wow, I understood that. I was wondering 'what's the point'. Still, I'm never getting married. |
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bruceski
said @ 9:51pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:3 Underrated]
One-inch dick? I'd kill for a one-inch dick. Mine would get confused for a bellybutton if not for the testicles. |
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b
said @ 6:52pm GMT on 17th Aug
An innie or an outie? |
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bruceski
said @ 8:12pm GMT on 17th Aug
[Score:1 Interesting]
Depends on the temperature. |
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landsky
said @ 12:45am GMT on 18th Aug
smalldicklover.tumblr.com |
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EPT
said @ 11:10am GMT on 18th Aug
[Score:1 Insightful]
one of the best short films of all time of ALL TIME! |
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Naruki
said @ 7:26am GMT on 18th Aug
I'd kill for a one-inch dick. Finally, the Mystery of the Mutilated and Murdered GOP Leaders is solved! |
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landsky
said @ 11:07pm GMT on 18th Aug
[Score:1 WTF]
Perhaps, the penis isn't too petite, rather it is the testicles which are too large. :) |
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granitewitch
said @ 8:44pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:3 Insightful]
Okay, on a re-read, this is what's really bothering me about this guy: What on earth, outside of regular, willing, and adventurous sex, do you think you have to offer a man? Do you think I married you for your company?...your intellect? If he married her strictly for sex, he's a goddam fool. I married both of my wives because I enjoyed their company, admired their intelligence and liked their humor. Sadly mental illness on her part claimed the first marriage, but the second one is going strong. If you don't like her as a person and as a friend, why the hell would you want to tie your life to hers? |
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1000gpw
said @ 1:43am GMT on 17th Aug
[Score:3]
The first half of that last paragraph was going pretty good, but the ending was a bummer. You should've changed it to "...and the three of us are living happily ever after." |
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foobar
said @ 8:46pm GMT on 16th Aug
If you marry someone you don't like just for sex, you deserve what you get. |
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lilmookieesquire
said @ 8:52pm GMT on 16th Aug
Do you want me to pretend I like it? |
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foobar
said @ 12:04am GMT on 17th Aug
[Score:5 Funny]
No, I want you to pretend you don't. |
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valen85
said @ 8:51pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:1 Insightful]
Ouch... this is going to hurt him in his alimony case... |
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vahid
said @ 8:52pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:1 Informative]
there is no alimony in a 3 year marriage in CA... |
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lilmookieesquire
said @ 9:10pm GMT on 16th Aug
True but maybe she can score some money off him... Financial Settlement: California's no-fault approach to divorce extends to financial settlements. Because of this, the fact that one spouse committed adultery doesn't affect the division of community property in California. However, if one spouse can prove that the other spouse used community property to finance an adulterous relationship, that spouse can ask the court to regard this as a misappropriation of marital funds. The court can then award that spouse up to half of the misappropriated funds, with interest. http://www.ehow.com/list_6679112_adultery-divorce-laws-california.html |
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* (The Asshole FKA Morris)
said @ 8:55pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:1 Funny]
I stopped reading after he started bragging about his adventures with women who are unremarkable. |
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snowfox
said @ 8:56pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:5 Insightful]
Terrible people enter doomed relationship! Film at 11. |
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tickaz
said @ 11:20pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:1 Insightful]
You seem bitter. |
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snowfox
said @ 7:01am GMT on 17th Aug
[Score:1 Hot Pr0n]
I wish. I never even get to the "having a relationship" part. Can't handle commitment like that from a day to day basis. |
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cb361
said @ 9:05am GMT on 17th Aug
Relationships are tough, and even the best involve a degree of mutual sacrifice. I think when they work out, it's the exception rather than the rule. |
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assbastard
said @ 11:39pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:1 Funny]
Really? Is there film of the sex? |
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sanepride
said @ 2:04am GMT on 17th Aug
Y'know what? Even if there's no film of them having sex you can find film of other people having sex and pretend it's them. If that's what you really want. |
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assbastard
said @ 2:32am GMT on 17th Aug
[Score:4 Funny]
My god, you're right! TO THE MASTURBATORIUM! |
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DarkShadowRavenDragonGrrl69
said @ 2:40am GMT on 17th Aug
Surely you mean the Masturbatory. |
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mechanical contrivance
said @ 3:10am GMT on 17th Aug
Only if the accent is on the second syllable. |
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damnit
said @ 3:13am GMT on 17th Aug
Who would want to watch that? |
damnit
said @ 3:15am GMT on 17th Aug
[Score:2]
|
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pleaides
said @ 3:00pm GMT on 17th Aug
THAT KID IS FUCKING EVIL |
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Ankylosaur
said @ 10:35pm GMT on 17th Aug
Not anymore. He now has a fapping station. |
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rangerx
said @ 8:58pm GMT on 16th Aug
When you use sex for power and control, you do damage that cannot be undone. That door swings both ways, but it is probably the only nugget of truth in that whole mess of keyboard diarrhea |
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lilmookieesquire
said @ 9:02pm GMT on 16th Aug
There are nuggets of wisdom. It's just that most of them are examples of what not to do with your life. |
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Oberoten
said @ 5:48am GMT on 17th Aug
Like corn then? |
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rangerx
said @ 9:04pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:1 Funny]
I just realized this was in OC. So much clearer now..... |
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lilmookieesquire
said @ 9:13pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:2]
+1 for the new link. Yowsers! |
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granitewitch
said @ 9:17pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:1 Insightful]
Seconded! |
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rangerx
said @ 9:30pm GMT on 16th Aug
Damn, my upmod was before the new link, for irony's sake. Now I wish I could upmod again. |
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Kat
said @ 9:16pm GMT on 16th Aug
Man thinks with his dick and makes bad choice in picking a spouse. Film at 11. Also: " I believe it means that you do not allow yourself to become a fat lazy, nagging, complaining toddler who doesn't want to have sex with your partner any more." Anyone else picture this guy bitching out a fat child for not giving it up? |
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lilmookieesquire
said @ 9:26pm GMT on 16th Aug
There's nothing wrong with thinking with your dick if you can find the right partner. I'm just shocked that if sex is so important to this guy, why didn't he take the time to find someone with similar interests who makes a good match with him physically and mentally. From the article she was at least 28 when they got married, so it's not like they got married in high school or something. |
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Kat
said @ 10:05pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:1 Insightful]
Thinking with your dick seems like bad idea when picking someone to marry. It's more something that you should do while picking a mistress. |
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lilmookieesquire
said @ 10:10pm GMT on 16th Aug
Good point. I suppose if you only care about sex, it makes little sense to get married in the first place. |
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tickaz
said @ 11:46pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:2 Insightful]
I beleive lilmookie's point is if the guy only thinks with his wang then he would be wise to marry someone who only thinks with her cooter. That way, both parties are getting what they want out of the relationship and aren't left feeling like they need something more. |
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conga
said @ 9:43pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:2 Insightful]
"Let me be clear: there is nothing, besides the promise of regular, enjoyable sex, that I ever wanted from you." That is absolutely pathetic. Stopped reading after this. If this is real, the man is a douchebag fucktard. |
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mechanical contrivance
said @ 1:17am GMT on 17th Aug
If all he wanted was sex, he shouldn't have married her. He should have just kept having sex with her until she started refusing him, then left her and found someone else. And she shouldn't have pretended to enjoy having sex with him just so he would marry her. She pretended to be ideal for him even though she knew he was not ideal for her. Stupidity all around. |
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mcclint
said @ 10:25pm GMT on 16th Aug
Holy shit.... it sounds like you married my ex-wife. You described her in every detail. |
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vahid
said @ 10:28pm GMT on 16th Aug
what do you mean by "you"? |
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spite48
said @ 10:49pm GMT on 16th Aug
Set aside the indisputable fact that this guy is an asshole who married for no other reason than out of an expectation for regular sex which wasn't actually spoken of or agreed to. The whole thing made me sad. As someone who has experienced bed death, has been responsible for bed death, and has seen bed death destroy relationships of friends, family and of my own, let me ask this: Has anyone ever successfully had a relationship fully recover after the sex completely went away? |
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willrogers
said @ 3:11am GMT on 17th Aug
If you read between the lines it's pretty obvious that the wife wasn't getting off and the husband (the author) wasn't willing to learn how to get her off despite her actually trying to tell/teach him. He's responsible for the "bed death" by assuming that what he's doing constituted good sex instead of what it really was, him getting off and leaving her unsatisfied. |
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cb361
said @ 7:40am GMT on 17th Aug
It might be considered relevant that none of his 'up to thirty women' apparently came back for sex with him, long enough to develop a relationship . |
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willrogers
said @ 9:14am GMT on 17th Aug
That's kind of my thought, too. I understand that he probably doesn't want another relationship because he thinks it will end up like his current marriage, but you'd think there'd be some repeat flings, like an affair fuckbuddy. I guess I was just struck by the part where he explicitly outlines that his wife was trying to make inroads in their sex life by showing him what she likes and he just completely disregards it, acting like sex is completely just about him getting off and she should be so lucky that he agreed to marry her, so she should just shut the fuck up and spread her legs. He's just so obtuse that he doesn't realize that she was making the effort to get their sex life back on track, but it's not what he wants (i.e. he doesn't want to have to learn and get better at fucking), so he doesn't pay attention. Honestly, what do you think are the odds that he ever eats her out? |
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GordonGuano
said @ 2:20pm GMT on 17th Aug
I was in a relationship with a woman who actually complained that I always got her off first. Apparently it didn't feel spontaneous enough if I didn't throw her down and pound her like a cheap steak because she turned me into a rutting beast. Equally apparently, she never had to try and fuck a dry pussy. Of course, I suspect her real problem with me was the whole snoring/farting/back hair shedding/inadequate penis size/generally just being an awful human being thing, but she was too polite to say. |
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spite48
said @ 7:51am GMT on 17th Aug
You're completely missing my cry for help here. Seriously though, I did wonder about that, and certainly that's part of the problem in some cases. One partner stops putting the effort in, either with respect to putting effort and creativity into pleasing their partner, or maintaining their physical attractiveness, or stops pulling their weight in the relationship generally, or generally becomes unkind or takes their partner for granted, and then complains about the decline in sexual activity. |
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willrogers
said @ 9:27am GMT on 17th Aug
[Score:2 Insightful]
That was kind of my point, but the main idea is that the guy obviously isn't considering whether or not his wife is getting off which is probably what causes her to be more reluctant to have sex. Shit, he even admits that she tried to show him how to get her off and he just disregards it completely. He's too stupid to realize he's a huge part of why his wife won't fuck him, he's just not getting her off. I'm not discounting the possibility that their ideal sex frequencies don't match and she wants it far less than he does, but it seems like she was actually putting in some kind of effort to putting their sex life back on track while he just wanted more frequent quick rammings. Maybe if he actually made her cum once in a while she'd actually want to fuck him. But as for your more general concern about the deaths of couples' sex lives, it's a complicated question and the solution is difficult, but it generally involves figuring out why the sex stopped in the first place. If you don't realize that the death of the sex life is a symptom of some other problems, instead of just focusing on forcing sex back into your lives, you'll never solve the problem. There are numerous and diverse reasons why people stop having sex, from being too tired, to not having enough privacy (especially when you have kids), to not having time (again, frequently due to children), to self-esteem and body issues, communication problems, fights and arguments about other problems spilling over into the bedroom (would you really want to fuck someone you just spent several hours arguing with over whether one of your parents should visit for a week?), to perceived lack of genuine interest and love (e.g. if someone doesn't feel like their partner still loves them they are probably not going to have amorous feelings about them as frequently), to boredom in the bedroom, to suspicions of infidelity, etc. Unless you work this shit out and figure out the real reason why your sex life is suffering, your sex life and relationship could easily permanently end. |
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granitewitch
said @ 2:05pm GMT on 17th Aug
[Score:1 Informative]
The really hellish part of this is that it may not be within your control. In my first marriage it was much like what the letter writer described- full-on mind blowing sex before marriage, turning into once-a-week-at-best tokens. She couldn't name any real reason for this, other than she just didn't find it as exciting anymore. So I started reading and researching as best I could in those pre-internet days, and tried all of the things I could find or dream up. Everything from toys to different positions to light bondage... nothing was off limits to try. And while it might bring some life back into it for a few nights, after a time she would be back to sighing whenever I touched her. When one night, after going down on her until she hit orgasm and then getting on top of her and pumping away while reaching down to rub her clit I noticed that she was picking her fingernails, I realized that it was hopeless. |
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snowfox
said @ 5:37pm GMT on 18th Aug
I get a kick out of these conversations. I can't get off with another person present. It just does not work for me and never has. I often get the odd reverse of this situation. Every man and woman I have been with wanted to orally pleasure me, but all were disappointed when it amounted to nothing more than foreplay. |
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mechanical contrivance
said @ 12:10am GMT on 19th Aug
I'd still do it. |
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willrogers
said @ 2:21am GMT on 19th Aug
Two things: 1. Foreplay is still awesome and it feels good even if you don't cum. 2. Some people just are that way. There's just some aspect of mutual sex that can't bridge that gap between feeling good and orgasm. I'm not a sex therapist or expert so I don't really know the physiological or psychological aspects of that kind of thing, but it just is what it is, though at least it would be kind of a fun problem to try and fix. |
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atter_cob
said @ 11:23pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:1 Insightful]
This guy married a cunt. And his wife married a dick. Apparently they are not happy together. Shrug. I think people would be a lot happier if open marriages were a more normal thing. Monogamy made sense when you'd be concerned about paternity, but now sex and baby-making are pretty much separate activities. |
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tickaz
said @ 12:02am GMT on 17th Aug
The problem with open relationships is that unless both parties are 100% totally cool with it, then one person is likely to get jealous. Eventually this jealousy will fester and the relationship is doomed. |
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atter_cob
said @ 12:17am GMT on 17th Aug
That can be managed. If the open person builds long term relationships that s/he then flaunts in front of the closed person, then yeah that will be a problem. But if the open person understands that the closed person is really not interested in knowing then s/he can just keep those relations away from home. It's sort of like you would with an affair except you don't actually lie about it. |
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tickaz
said @ 12:25am GMT on 17th Aug
Uhhhh, but you do realise the closed person is harbouring jealousy, right? Do you really think the closed person is totally OK with the open person slutting around while they sit at home twiddling their thumbs? |
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tickaz
said @ 12:26am GMT on 17th Aug
I'm not saying it's not possible, just unlikely. |
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atter_cob
said @ 2:24am GMT on 17th Aug
Uhhhhh, but you do know that you can't read everyone's mind, right? Seriously, just because you would be jealous does not mean everyone would be. I've been married 21 years now and if my wife were secretly harboring jealousy then it would have been an issue by now. And no, she's not bottling it up inside... on a regular basis she vents out on things that have upset her. She's not the "keep it in" type of person. Hell, on the occasions where I've wanted sex with her more often than she's been interested, she's actually suggested I go fuck one of her friends. (Sadly the friend was not into the idea.) |
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Urzazero
said @ 6:44am GMT on 17th Aug
I'm in an open relationship and everything seems to be working just fine. 10 years married, 7 of them have been with multiple partners in our lives. Open and honest communication is the key to any relationship. |
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bruceski
said @ 7:05am GMT on 17th Aug
[Score:1 Insightful]
The main mistake I see is when folks say "it worked for me, therefore it can work for anyone" rather that "it worked for me, therefore it can work." This goes both ways, of course. |
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dreamingzephyr
said @ 3:40pm GMT on 19th Aug
Jealousy is a useless emotion that can be overcome with love, rationality, and understanding. Not everyone is going to be able to let go of their jealousy. Not everyone is able to mature past childhood pettiness either, or their anger issues, etc. All of these inhibitive mental states spring from a fragile ego. When someone claims to be "too jealous," they're choosing their fear of inadequacy over developing their emotional health. |
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cb361
said @ 4:47pm GMT on 19th Aug
I think that's probably a gross over-generalisaton of human personality. Human personality is so diverse that any generalisation is gross by definition, but this one seems phrased to be insulting as well. |
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dreamingzephyr
said @ 9:14pm GMT on 19th Aug
The only case in which I can imagine it being insulting is if you're defending jealousy as a useful emotion. I certainly bear no ill will toward the unfortunate victims of jealousy who are unable to pry themselves from its caustic touch. People love to get offended when their assumptions are questioned, be it religion or romance. |
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cb361
said @ 7:41am GMT on 20th Aug
Simply classifying a nearly endlessly complex range of human emotions and interactions that come into play as 'jealousy' is insulting, yes. And more seriously, classifying anything that doesn't fit your philosophy as 'jealousy' is not only wrong, it betrays a lack of insight. Look, you come across as a really nice, intelligent young person. Hell, I wish I was half as nice, intelligent and young (again). But you also come across as someone who is looking at things from an academic, book-learned viewpoint, without having those assumptions that you've taken on tested in the crucible of yourself. I think that when you genuinely face the prospect of losing the thing that you want more than anything else in the world, and you realise just how far you would go to keep it, you will understand more about the human condition than you can learn from books. |
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dreamingzephyr
said @ 4:42pm GMT on 20th Aug
I'm twenty seven and have been been in a polyamorous relationship for three years now. My assumptions were originally very much like yours and others'. I allowed them to be questioned. I allowed myself to question them. And then I grew a little. My boyfriend and I are connected by more than sex: he's the person I love and respect most in the word. I also really like to get him laid (as long as I can remember, one of my biggest turn-ons has been sharing my boyfriends and girlfriends). There have been plenty of experiences in my life thus far that have helped me to grow jaded, and in fact my negative view of humanity in general is greatly informed by how incapable the average person is of truly observing their own behaviors and feelings, let alone altering them. When I use the word jealous, I am referring to its definition: " a : intolerant of rivalry or unfaithfulness b : disposed to suspect rivalry or unfaithfulness" (source: Merriam-Webster). Using a definition may not make me look less "book smart" to you, but my point is that the word I used has a meaning. It comforts you to patronize me, because everyone's first action when their beliefs are questioned is to go on the defense and assume the questioner is wrong. If I'm just an idealist, able to be categorized by age or any other factor as less capable than you are of judging reality, then you're not necessarily harming yourself by continuing to demand sovereignty over your romantic partner's body. Humans are not unique snowflakes. If your "endlessly complex range of emotions and interactions" produces a feeling of intolerance toward someone engaging in an activity with a different person, that's jealousy. You may be entitled to feel it, produced as it was by all your valid feelings and memories, but I'm recommending an alternative. Truly loving someone is about them, not about you. |
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cb361
said @ 8:16am GMT on 21st Aug
It's probably too late for me to worry about offending you (truly not my intent, you seem like a great person), but you really don't come across as a 27 year old in your writing. Not to my reading of it, anyway. Because I do get a thread of the sort of arrogance you get in teenagers who are doing pretty well, and think they've got the world all figured out, and that everybody else just doesn't get it yet. Whether it's fashion or communism or polyamory or environmentalism or Catholicism or wicca, it's a beautiful, idealistic arrogance (I'd swap my current jaded outlook for it in a minute), but it's arrogance never-the-less, because how can you expect somebody without life experience to originate original thought? Okay, I don't know you, and I don't know what you've been through. But this is very much how you come across, and you do make rather simplistic pronouncements on complicated stuff. And the clincher is saying that you think I'm patronising you because you're challenging me to question my beliefs. It's the most basic of teenage accusations - the world just can't take your level of insight Maybe if we were talking on a cake-and-Jesus, but this is SE for cris'sake! I wouldn't be here if I didn't have a pretty damn socially-liberal attitude to sex. Really, you're not making me question myself - Hell, I've had sex with a married couple numerous times, I wouldn't have done that if your ideas blew my mind. I'm not even disagreeing with you, I think that what you've saying is correct. But I think that it's such a small part of a bigger picture. As though it's you who has't entirely moved on from conventional thought, and are still framing the debate in obsolete terms. Like going on and on about jealousy. Now there's an old-fashioned way of looking at the world. Jealousy isn't a thing that people suffer from. It's not a thing in itself. It's a symptom of much deeper things going on. It can be a symptom of a lot of different things, and those different things can have many other symptoms. Jealousy isn't the eighth deadly sin, it isn't the cause of 'fragile egos', what it is is the scum floating on the surface when the real business is going on underneath somewhere. My personal belief is that the deepest of these things is Need, and that's where jealousy comes from. The deep, looming chasm of human need that fractures us and reduces us to children. And that when we are confronted with our need, there's no telling what we'll do to try and fill it, in spite of our beliefs. I've been writing now for an hour when I should be working, so I'll stop now, incomplete and unedited. |
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dreamingzephyr
said @ 5:11pm GMT on 21st Aug
You mixed up the causality of ego and jealousy. And have defended my assertion multiple times, inserting your own word choice. If a person's Need results in a desire to control another person's sexuality, that Need doesn't align with love. That Need sounds like a need for validation, or a need to have no "competition," or a simple need for control. You accuse me of going on and on about jealousy, but jealousy was all I was ever addressing. You can paint the brain to be as mysterious a place as you wish to, but the topic that I was discussing when you expressed disagreement was jealousy. You've focused your comments on the manner in which I see humanity, filtered as it is through years of psychology classes and deepening despair at the state of the world. You reiterate that I'm naive and assumptive. You have said nothing to actually contradict my assertions. Claiming that the roots of jealousy are complex isn't the same as redeeming the emotion as valuable. I think a large part of what you see as complexity is just the mind recoiling from truly seeing its motivations. Most people don't want to see the fear that drives them. "My personal belief is that the deepest of these things is Need, and that's where jealousy comes from. The deep, looming chasm of human need that fractures us and reduces us to children." I'm encouraging people to stop allowing themselves to be reduced. You say I make wide assumptions, but yours appears to be that this fracturing is inevitable. |
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spite48
said @ 7:09pm GMT on 21st Aug
I haven't read everything in this thread, so really I'm just jumping in stupidly, but nobody is suggesting that a monogamous relationship is all about jealousy and control are they? I think there are many complex reasons that people form exclusive partnerships, including societal norms and expectations, religious reasons, mutual protection from STDs, mutual sacrifice with respect to other alternatives to demonstrate commitment, desperation, a desire to avoid complexity, personal preference, general satisfaction, a simple failure to discuss or consider alternatives, etc... |
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cb361
said @ 8:08am GMT on 22nd Aug
Hey, I've never claimed to be clever. Just to have picked up the kind of wiry wisdom you receive from having the shit kicked out of. And I don't even particularly disagree with you on the intellectual points. My position is that they are just intellectual points, and their correctness, correct though they may be, doesn't automatically translate into being useful in the real world. Okay, you believe that jealousy is horrible thing that badly effects people. Jealousy is bad. I'm fine with that conclusion. But what use is that information? Just because you know that, you can't immunise somebody against jealousy. You can't immunise yourself against it. There are no gymnasiums where knowing if half the battle and people can go and build up their emotional muscles to deal with jealousy. And, dreamingzephyr, you can't read the chapter on Jealousy in The Ethical Slut, and find yourself removed from the common jealous herd. My supposition is this: Despite your reading and your thinking and this discussion on a backwater message board, you yourself are just as much at risk from jealousy as any of those 'poor victims of jealousy' who you are so compassionate towards. Reading all the Dossie Easton and Janet Hardy in the world, or watching a million other girls fuck your boyfriend will not make a lot of difference in this respect. That's why I said that I think you will feel differently when (and if) you've faced the prospect of losing something that you want more than anything else in the world. In short, you can't immunise yourself from feeling just by knowing about them. You immunise yourself from feelings by going through them, having your personality shattered on the floor, and rebuilding yourself from scratch. That's why I took from your writing that you were around 21/22. If I'm wrong, correct me, but you don't talk as though you've gone through this kind of thing. You don't write like somebody who's had their heart broken and had to rebuild it. That kind of thing changes you. Permanently. Nobody ever learned anything from books. Not really learn, no matter how correct the information. Because we learn from experiencing. It goes double for the bad stuff. Ironically, the same goes for this post. You can read it, but you won't learn from it. Unless you want to tell me that everything I've said is true, and therefore invalidate my lesson. Anyway, once again I've forgotten what I intended to say. I think it was a case study about me hurting my girlfriend by denying her my jealousy when it would have comforted, and patting myself on the back for being oh so enlightened and anti-jealous. All the best, anybody who's still reading. |
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dreamingzephyr
said @ 5:32pm GMT on 22nd Aug
All of this wisdom accrued in a single lifetime. Good thing you're allowed to make sweeping generalizations about what people feel and precisely how someone will change after experiencing loss. I sure feel silly for my initial generalizations, seeing injured egos where I should have used the words "broken hearts." |
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dreamingzephyr
said @ 5:19pm GMT on 20th Aug
" I think that when you genuinely face the prospect of losing the thing that you want more than anything else in the world, and you realise just how far you would go to keep it, you will understand more about the human condition than you can learn from books." Is jealousy going to help the hero in this scenario keep the thing he's afraid of losing? Would rage? Would childish pettiness? If your goal is to illustrate that the mental state I've been referring to as "jealousy" and you as a "range of human emotions and interactions" doesn't rise from what I initially called "a fragile ego" and what your hypothetical situation paints perfectly as a place of fear, it's not working. |
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SourSadnessBear
said @ 5:13pm GMT on 19th Aug
No one here started off saying it could work for everyone, just that more people would be happy if it was a normal thing. We live in a society that favors monogamy, largely the result of historical precedent from the management of property, the influence of the church, and as a general tool to keep women in their prescribed societal role. The vast majority of romantic partners don't even consider the idea of an open or polyamorous relationship, even if it's immediately evident that the monogamous model doesn't work for them, leading to problems down the road. If other relationship models were socially acceptable, they could make an informed choice together and come to an agreement that is ideal for them. |
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kichijoii
said @ 1:22am GMT on 17th Aug
I think you are fooling yourself if you think that the only difference between an open marriage and a closed one is the number of people fucking. I have known many persons who had open relationships, and I tell you that it invites its own special problems. I think it would be much better if people didn't decide to marry just because it's the "natural" progression of an intimate relationship. Don't just jump through the hoops like a dog, no matter what your family, friends, or boy/girlfriend says. If you're not ready, don't. If you don't see yourself married to that person, admit it openly and take whatever shit comes your way. Don't waste his/her/your time and money. Most importantly, if you feel like cheating, then you know its time to end the relationship. Be mature and just end it. |
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atter_cob
said @ 2:27am GMT on 17th Aug
Everything invites its own problems. And the open relationships where everyone is expected to have loving relationships with lots of people are a huge drama-filled pain in the arse. But, 2 person relationship where it's agreed that occasionally you can fuck someone else for fun does not have to be any more complicated than a relationship where you occasionally go to the bar with your buddies. |
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kichijoii
said @ 8:29am GMT on 17th Aug
If I go to a bar and find another person who could be my friend, it doesn't risk the friendships I already have. If romantic relationships were as open as that, then we would not have a special category called romantic relationships, we would all just be fuck buddies. The point of the exclusive romantic relationship is that you sacrifice more than just sex or money with others. You focus your time and effort on constantly developing the relationship with that one person. Time spent fucking some other body is wasted when it could have been spent on your more important relationship. More importantly, how can you guarantee that one of those fucks "for fun" will not develop into something more? When you open the relationship to intimacies with others you invite others to potentially tear the couple apart. The other person could want you for him/herself, or you could start to find your current mate less attractive in comparison. I do not think emotions are so easily "managed;" how does one rationalize the irrational? When you allow the third (or fourth, or nth) variable into your system, you complicate things in ways that could have been avoided and were not, in my opinion, worth the occasional fun it brought. And I posit that if you really have sexual needs that cannot be solved with your one partner, then you are better off ending that relationship and finding one who does. |
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bruceski
said @ 8:52am GMT on 17th Aug
Poly isn't for everyone, personally I get rather focused about relationships and would find it difficult to have them with multiple people at a time, but for some folks it works. I've seen straight couples with an occasional extra person for spice, I've seen full-blown poly relationships (by which I mean multiple relationships at once, not "I love you but I'm fucking anyone I want"), and I've seen the ones that don't work out. One of my friends in college was into a guy enough that she was sure she could make herself be okay sharing him with his other GF, and that crashed and burned. The trick is to be willing to be truthful with yourself and figure out what you want, not just what sounds good. Some people know their own minds/hearts more easily than others. |
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willrogers
said @ 9:41am GMT on 17th Aug
[Score:2]
It's not really that simple. Different people have different needs and desires and it's about matching them with the person you choose to be your partner. If you like open relationships, your partner has to be into them, too. You can't just have the other person begrudgingly allow you to fuck around while they sit at home and feel jealous. This is why so many open relationships involve swinging. If you are having sex with another open couple together or at least simultaneously in separate areas, it's no longer you separately fucking other people, but rather the two of you engaging in a new experience together. You're experiencing new things sexually as a couple and can use that to enhance your relationship. This doesn't mean that open relationships, swinging, etc. are right for all people or all couples, or that people who like open relationships and have them are more mature, superior, etc. than people who like monogamy, it's just a different form of relationship. The most important thing is to differentiate between emotional and sexual monogamy. Sex is generally a physical manifestation of emotion towards another person, which is why sex has such power and significance for most people and adultery leads to such heartbreak. It's pretty textbook excitation transfer, you feel all that great stuff as physiological results of fucking and your mind associates the experiences with the person your fucking. You begin to associate those feelings with that other person alone, distinct from the physiological responses from fucking (i.e. classical conditioning). This is partly why so many fuckbuddy "relationships" end with one person wanting more and the other just wanting sex, though there are likely preexisting feelings, which are partly why they agreed to be fuckbuddies in the first place. There are some people that are just able to separate sex from emotion to the degree that they can enjoy sex with people other than their partners without creating any new significant emotional relationships, but their sex with their partners still has that emotional significance. It's really just a matter of finding the partner who is also this way or at least realizes that sex outside the relationship is just a matter of physical, not emotional, significance. |
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atter_cob
said @ 10:46am GMT on 17th Aug
How can you guarantee anything? How many times has a guy/gal said "We started as just friends but over time it grew and now I know I love him/her and so I'm leaving you."? Not putting your dick into someone does not mean you won't fall in lover with them, and putting your dick in them does not mean you will. Anyhow, you do what you want. I'm happy with my life and I'm suggesting that some people who are currently unhappy might be happier if they tried my version. Or they might be less happy, but it can't hurt to give it some thought. |
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kichijoii
said @ 7:25pm GMT on 17th Aug
Fair enough. I'm not spiteful or frothing at the mouth; I enjoyed this discussion and the different perspectives it brought up. Cheers. |
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spite48
said @ 8:47pm GMT on 19th Aug
[Score:1 Hot Pr0n]
I consider myself to be in an open relationship with everyone on SE. I just haven't told my wife yet, or managed to persuade anyone here that I'm not creepy. Probably because I'm creepy. |
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atter_cob
said @ 11:25pm GMT on 16th Aug
Why would you mix a nice porn link with this idiotic rant?? |
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tickaz
said @ 11:54pm GMT on 16th Aug
It's sanepride logic: if a post is shit, then porn makes it all better. |
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mechanical contrivance
said @ 1:19am GMT on 17th Aug
[Score:1 Informative]
To be fair, porn does make everything better. |
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tickaz
said @ 11:51pm GMT on 16th Aug
[Score:1 Classy Pr0n]
Who is this: ![]() and where can I find more? |
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Aphex808
said @ 12:02am GMT on 17th Aug
[Score:2]
http://ruero.com/23189-amnell-v-cvetochek.html Tineye.com is your friend. Yeah I know the link doesn't work, too lazy to do it. Copy and paste ftw. |
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Menchi
said @ 12:16am GMT on 17th Aug
[Score:1 Funny]
I don't know her name, but I've also seen her in this post: http://sensibleerection.com/entry.php/86894 |
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tickaz
said @ 12:19am GMT on 17th Aug
lolololololol u r 1 funy dood |
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backSLIDER
said @ 2:40am GMT on 17th Aug
[Score:2 Insightful]
I was the first of my friends to get married. It's been four great years, thanks for asking. When I've been asked "how do you know if she's the one" or "doesn't sex suck after being married?" I always respond with "it's like living with my best friend as a roommate and she is hot and we get to have sex". If you've been bad at chosing roommates what makes you think you can chose one for life? Other then sex and some money things (both can be worked on with good communication) it's all the same problems. |
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zenviper
said @ 2:54am GMT on 17th Aug
Thumb looks like the Maldives. Iam headed there in December for the first time :) |
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EPT
said @ 5:00am GMT on 17th Aug
What happened to that poor trumpet? |
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-_-
said @ 5:36am GMT on 17th Aug
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HeadCook
said @ 12:50pm GMT on 17th Aug
what a windbag |
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Lady Bracknell
said @ 1:07pm GMT on 17th Aug
A windbag? |
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happiest_sadist
said @ 10:06pm GMT on 17th Aug
You know, like the one Aeolus has. Or maybe it's derogatory slang for a windlass. Or an acronym for WINdows Database Admin Groups. Or just a bag that emits wind. |
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rndmnmbr
said @ 7:08pm GMT on 17th Aug
I feel like I should post here - I've survived a few exploding relationships in my time - but all I can come up with is that sometimes two people just don't work as one couple, and if all this fucker can think of is getting his dick wet maybe he needs to put on his big girl panties and join the race of adults because not even most of a real adult relationship revolves around sex. |
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spite48
said @ 9:42pm GMT on 17th Aug
"not even most of a real adult relationship revolves around sex." Sure, but there are often serious problems if the sex-life isn't satisfactory. Lack of sex kills a ton of otherwise solid relationships - either because someone leaves, or because someone cheats in a moment of weakness and gets caught. |
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snowfox
said @ 5:39pm GMT on 18th Aug
Am I the only person alive who thinks masturbation is way better than sex? |
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spite48
said @ 7:44pm GMT on 18th Aug
Depends on lots of things for me. It takes a skilled, attractive and keen partner to beat beating off. Lots of people are fucking terrible at fucking. |
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spite48
said @ 8:45pm GMT on 18th Aug
Sorry I had to go before I completed my thought. No question, masturbation is always a great option to deal with disparate sex drives, or where a partner is temporarily unwell or not in the mood, or even for the sake of variety, or just for the hell of it. For me, being in a romantic relationship where sex wanes without explanation is a problem for reasons other than sexual satisfaction alone. If I'm in a romantic relationship where my partner is responsible for less than 10% of my orgasms over time, and that 10% is the result of efforts to increase the frequency of sexual interaction, and the 10% my partner provides also fall in the bottom 10% of my orgasms in terms of intensity and enjoyability because they result from uninspired, dutiful coitus - well something's wrong. |
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mechanical contrivance
said @ 12:13am GMT on 19th Aug
Perhaps the reason you like masturbation better than sex is that you can't get off with someone else in the room. |
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snowfox
said @ 7:21am GMT on 19th Aug
Actually, X and Y are caused by Z, the fact that physical contact with other people is weird and uncomfortable to me. |
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cb361
said @ 9:23am GMT on 19th Aug
That's sad - the physical contact, and especially the kissing are my favorite part. Still, I've got it the other way around. I enjoy the physical contact, but can't put up with the social contact. Very soon I have to get away, and get myself back on my own again, whereupon the tension that's built up from the social contact drains away. |
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granitewitch
said @ 3:35am GMT on 19th Aug
To date I've only been with three women I couldn't get to orgasm. (Four if you count the one who was taking an antidepressant that interfered with it, but that doesn't count as she was able once she switched medications.) One I'm not sure of, but the other two were able to get themselves off after I was done. They both apologized, and I told them both that it was fine with me as long as they enjoyed what I did for them. (They said they did.) Then there was one woman who made the same claim as you, that she couldn't orgasm with another person- until she had a few drinks with me and then got on top. Evidently she just needed to relax and try something new. Dunno, I just enjoyed the ride. I think it's more likely to be a female thing than male, but I'm not an expert. |
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spite48
said @ 3:45am GMT on 19th Aug
I've never been with a woman I couldn't get to pretend to orgasm. |
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granitewitch
said @ 3:47am GMT on 19th Aug
It's quite possible that some have faked it with me. I can usually tell now, but when I was younger I may have been fooled. I'm just going by what I was told, which may not have been true... |
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spite48
said @ 5:04am GMT on 19th Aug
Sorry, I was just being self-deprecating, not suggesting you are mistaken. |
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granitewitch
said @ 12:27pm GMT on 19th Aug
Heh. I knew that. I was just joining the fun. |