Sensible Erection | Drought + global food crisis, So the US is burning 40% of it's corn crop. Brilliant !

Thursday, 16 August 2012

Drought + global food crisis, So the US is burning 40% of it's corn crop. Brilliant !

quote [ Food prices appear set to keep rising after a 6 percent jump last month, escalating a food-versus-fuel debate centered on a law that dictates that about 40 percent of the corn crop must be converted into ethanol. ]

This is nothing compared to what it will be like next summer.
Food prices will be scarey.

As drought continues, forecast yield lowered 23 bushels per acre

http://www.agprofessional.com/news/As-drought-continues-forecast-yield-lowered-23-bushels-per-acre-166129566.html

I am not against ethanol I am against making it with corn.
To start with making ethanol from corn unless you are going to drink it is stupid. Why burn up a food source when you could use any number of other things.

Here is one example.

Cassava is one of the most drought-tolerant crops, capable of growing on marginal soils.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manioc

It can be grown in 1/3 of the US in parts that can't grow much else.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/2012_USDA_Plant_Hardiness_Zone_Map_%28USA%29.jpg

Or....

EPA to approve sorghum for cleaner ethanol; experts say grain has less impact on food prices

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/epa-to-approve-sorghum-for-cleaner-ethanol-experts-say-grain-has-less-impact-on-food-prices/2012/08/15/8861a178-e70e-11e1-9739-eef99c5fb285_story.html

This Drought is far from over and likely won't be the last.

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/expert_assessment/seasonal_drought.html

This is a world wide problem. It is the cause of most of the turmoil in the world along with scores of deaths due to starvation.

U.S. drought drives up food prices worldwide

http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/09/news/economy/food-prices-index/index.htm

And all of this for a miniscule about of fuel. Stupid.

[politics] [by bbqkink@12:37amGMT] [+5 Informative]

Comments

SicJake said @ 12:54am GMT on 16th Aug
From what I understand the US only grows so much corn because the Gov't subsidizes it. It's why High Fructose Corn Syrup is unforately everywhere, it's cheaper than real sugar. Too many farmers with corn crops, have them turn it into fuel.

It would be nice to live in a world where farmers grow local crops catering to their community instead regulated industry that is factory farming. Don't think it's very realistic tho with cities as large as they are.

bbqkink said @ 1:39am GMT on 16th Aug
Ethanol Subsidies: Not Gone, Just Hidden a Little Better

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/01/ethanol-subsidies-not-gone-just-hidden-little-better

incpenners said @ 1:43am GMT on 16th Aug [Score:1 Interesting]
The US government subsidizes sugar because both parties reap benefits from it; the price is higher, which pleases the producers, and makes corn a more attractive sweetener, which pleases those producers.

By creating artificial shortages of either crop (through caps on production, or more likely disincentives to bring it to market), the actual price can't be known, which suits just about everyone except the consumer. And the people starving in other countries.

It would be nice to live in a world where farmers grow local crops catering to their community instead regulated industry that is factory farming. Don't think it's very realistic tho with cities as large as they are.

There's some of this going on in Detroit, but it's necessarily going on under the radar because it's not popular with some constituencies.

chold_numa said @ 12:40pm GMT on 16th Aug
The US government subsidises crops because of political pressure from farmers and agribusiness concerns to do so. There's also a food security issue.

The subsidies damage the ability of poorer countries to sell their own agricultural products at a reasonable price on international markets. If the US was unable to produce enough corn, it could easily buy the shortfall on international markets.

bltrocker said @ 3:09am GMT on 16th Aug [Score:1]
*Sees the phrase "cheaper than real sugar"*
*Facepalm*

It's not correct at all to imply that high fructose corn syrup is not real sugar. HFCS, A mixture of fructose and dextrose, is a pretty real composition of sugars.

Yes, fructose is metabolized differently than pure dextrose (glucose) with its low glycemic index, but those idiotic "sugar is sugar" commercials actually aren't too far off. Fructose is the sugar found in fruit for god-sakes. As much as I have tried to find a solid collection of studies looking for risks of HFCS versus pure dextrose, I have not been able to find a good pile of evidence. The best I could find are a couple studies showing minor changes in insulin resistance and triglyceride levels that are significant in opposing directions across studies.

Any biochemist (perhaps of the viking variety), please feel free to elaborate on or refute my remarks.

swiggy said @ 6:11am GMT on 16th Aug [Score:1 Interesting]

I like this guy. Seems somewhat impartial.

swiggy said @ 6:24am GMT on 16th Aug
TL;DW version: it's not all that much MORE dangerous, we just use entirely too fucking much.

ithaqua10 said @ 1:17pm GMT on 16th Aug [Score:1 Insightful]
swiggy is correct here. Once corn was subsidized it became what to do with it, hey we can make HFCS now. What do we do with it? Add it to everything. it makes your breakfast sausage get that nice brown coating, it tends to help extend shelf life. Because it's a liquid stored in tanks, not a powder stored in bags, you don't have as much of a pest problem etc. Everyone got on board and it's in everything. Your low fat products replace the fat with sugars (usually HFCS again) because you have to get flavor from somewhere.
The "danger" with HFCS is it is in everything these days. Foods that didn't necessarily have added sugar, now contain HFCS, so since Americans love their processed foods, they are consuming much more sugar than they ever did, ergo Americans are now a bunch of fat bastards. Qualifications: BSc in Microbiology, parents who were both diabetic, Fat Bastard.

bltrocker said @ 9:52pm GMT on 16th Aug
One minor quibble: It is my understanding that the obesity epidemic was caused by many factors, HFCS being introduced in the 80s in a major way being a controversial one. I would lean toward the cheapness of food with high caloric density (whether bolstered by HFCS or not) and increased sedentary lifestyle post-WWII as the probable main players.

mrklipp said @ 6:48am GMT on 16th Aug [Score:1 Underrated]
Does it also bother you that people just say gas when they are referring to a specific petroleum distillate rather than anything that is termed a gas?

Sugar, for the purposes used in all your examples, is used in the context of referring to sucrose, not meaning any water-soluble crystalline carbohydrate.

Sucrose doesn't taste like lactose, maltose, fructose, or any other sugar. It's perfectly accurate to say that high fructose corn syrup isn't real sugar because it's not, given the meaning of sugar intended by that statement.

bltrocker said @ 7:42am GMT on 16th Aug
Preposterous. Firstly, using the abbreviated gasoline is fine. The context is usually clear enough that you don't need any more detail. Now for "real sugar", the term is completely undefined. I guess you're right that anything can be defined as anything... as long as it's defined. The practical context clues just aren't there though.

Does it mean table sugar, like what you are guessing? Does it mean glucose? Does the commenter not understand what HFCS really is and thus is making as silly a comparison as it sounds? If you want to get specific and define "real sugar" as sucrose, fine, but I require that you define your terms at that point, lest you look like a jackass.

In any case, "real sugar" is obviously meant to put HFCS is a pejorative light, and that definitely needs some bullshit called on it.

EPT said @ 11:08am GMT on 16th Aug
'sugar' as a scientific term is different from 'sugar' as a culinary term. Just like 'tomato' is a fruit when referred to in science, but a vegetable when referred to in cuisine.

Speaking of context and your defense of gasoline, do you really think anyone would be confused and not think that 'real sugar' refers to cane sugar?

the circus said @ 12:39pm GMT on 16th Aug
I think the real concern, and the point of those sugar is sugar ads, is that people are confusing HFCS with things like aspartame and saccharin. The ads are pointing out that both cane sugar and high fructose corn syrup are real sugars.

val said @ 4:11pm GMT on 16th Aug
This isn't chemistry, this is food labeling.

Consider the FDA's response to the corn refiners wanting to label HFCS as "corn sugar:" http://www.fda.gov/aboutFDA/CentersOffices/OfficeofFoods/CFSAN/CFSANFOIAElectronicReadingRoom/ucm305226.htm

bbqkink said @ 1:03am GMT on 16th Aug
Green Thumbs for Green Energy? Think Vertically

Less water, lots of empty buildings going to waste, lots of hungry people.

http://www.dylanratigan.com/2011/11/16/green-thumbs-for-green-energy-think-vertically/

http://www.verticalfarm.com/

eIfish said @ 1:12am GMT on 16th Aug
Vertical farms: Good Science at work.

SicJake said @ 1:40am GMT on 16th Aug
I lived for a few years in a co-op building, a few people pushed and made the board and the first thing they did was start up a roof top garden for veggies. I helped maintain it for about two years. Then like everything with a co-op, politics, politics, drama, new people elected to board and they scrap the garden. Complaints about water usage :p

Home grown veggies is the way to go, not much, but now I live in a house I keep a veggie garden.

eIfish said @ 1:04am GMT on 16th Aug
Yes, just think of the wholesome foods we could be making were that wonderful corn not being made into car-fuel:

- Corn flakes
- Doritos
- popcorn
- Coca Cola
- Corn, I guess
- Pepsi
- Mountain Dew

bbqkink said @ 1:05am GMT on 16th Aug [Score:2 Underrated]
Or we could feed those useless cows and pigs and chickens...

bbqkink said @ 1:10am GMT on 16th Aug
4,200 different uses for corn products, and more are being found each day

http://www.kycorn.org/documents/cornuses.pdf

mechanical contrivance said @ 2:03am GMT on 16th Aug
Who are you, George Washington Carver?

schatten00777 said @ 10:36am GMT on 16th Aug
bbqkink, defender of the peanu--err...corn stalk.

bbqkink said @ 3:26pm GMT on 16th Aug
In case you didn't know Agra business is huge where I am from. My home town calls itself the soybean capitol of the world. It is the headquarters for ADM and Tate a Lyle in the US. Corn and soy are a big deal and shapes my local economy.

eIfish said @ 1:15am GMT on 16th Aug [Score:1 Underrated]
Such a waste feeding corn to unappreciative cows when they could be eating grass.

(grass is one of the most drought-tolerant crops, capable of growing on marginal soils)

bbqkink said @ 1:22am GMT on 16th Aug [Score:1 Good]
Would help, but hard to feed it to chickens, pigs don't much care for it either.

mechanical contrivance said @ 2:06am GMT on 16th Aug [Score:2 Funny]
You got to starve the pigs for a few days, then the sight of chopped-up corn will look like curry to a pisshead.

bbqkink said @ 1:30am GMT on 16th Aug
Oh, by the way grass isn't enough by itself.

Alternative Feeding Strategies for Cows and Calves Due to Drought Related Forage Shortages

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/drought/altfeed.html

strangeffect said @ 1:40am GMT on 16th Aug
Here's an alternative strategy for 'em: GET A COW JOB. MAKE SOME COW MONEY. PAY YOUR COW BILLS OR SOME OTHER SUCH NONSENSE.

COW.

bbqkink said @ 1:44am GMT on 16th Aug
Or we could just kill em and eat em.

strangeffect said @ 2:44am GMT on 16th Aug
I suppose that would lower their utility bills.

incpenners said @ 1:45am GMT on 16th Aug
Way to take the bull by the horns; you've certainly steaked out your opinion.

sanepride said @ 1:51am GMT on 16th Aug
How's that whole hoax thing working out penners? Hot enough for ya?

mechanical contrivance said @ 2:08am GMT on 16th Aug
You were supposed to make a bovine pun.

sanepride said @ 2:33am GMT on 16th Aug
Sorry. I cud not resist.

BergZ said @ 3:00am GMT on 16th Aug
Now you know, and knowing is calf the battle!

Cakkafracle said @ 3:54am GMT on 16th Aug
moot

lilmookieesquire said @ 2:41am GMT on 16th Aug
Corn also makes cows stomachs acidic, and closer to ours, which might be able to make cross species desease a step closer to us.

todde said @ 2:34am GMT on 16th Aug [Score:2]
Corn-based ethanol never made any sense.
Cellulose-based ethanol? Definitely.
Fermentation of non-edible sugars? Yep.
The whole corn thing is a give-away to the large agri-combines.

-_- said @ 3:07am GMT on 16th Aug
Richard Branson: ethanol would be cheaper than gas if America stopped taxing sugar imports

mechanical contrivance said @ 3:54am GMT on 16th Aug
I don't think the corn lobby wants ethanol to be cheaper, and they certainly don't want the sucrose tax repealed.

kichijoii said @ 5:25am GMT on 16th Aug
Still doesn't get past natural production limits. It wouldn't even be a significant minority of fuel consumption.

graham said @ 3:38am GMT on 16th Aug
Pretty sure I redyelled this in some doomsday thread somewhere... D;

GordonGuano said @ 3:39am GMT on 16th Aug
Corn and wheat are basically poison anyway, might as well turn it all to ethanol if we're going to grow them. They waste land that could be used to graze bison.

/paleo cultist

Cakkafracle said @ 3:55am GMT on 16th Aug
totally with you, homeo

foobar said @ 3:59am GMT on 16th Aug [Score:1 Underrated]
Eat your bugs.

schatten00777 said @ 10:40am GMT on 16th Aug
So you take the word of pseudo-historian/dieticians over the plain evidence in your own mouth? Humans have obvious omnivorous dental characteristics. Eat some plants. They won't kill you. Unless they're, well, actually poisonous.

GordonGuano said @ 11:11am GMT on 16th Aug [Score:1 Good]
Er, I actually eat a ton of plants. Just not grains and potatoes (so much) anymore. The evidence around my waistline and bloodwork numbers has been encouraging that the pseudo-science is on to something, even if it's just a good way to restrict calories without being miserable. But yeah, a lot of folks are way too into it.

schatten00777 said @ 10:38pm GMT on 16th Aug
Fair enough!

kichijoii said @ 5:30am GMT on 16th Aug
Even if there weren't an imminent food crisis, I'd say that law sounds like shit. Ethanol is not nearly energy-efficient enough to justify that kind of commitment. I'm kind of embarrassed that I hadn't heard of that law until now.

happiest_sadist said @ 10:39pm GMT on 16th Aug
IMO the main thing that ethanol has to recommend it is that it can be burned in regular gasoline engines. Ethanol boosters claim that OBD-II engines can burn it without modification in most cases, though I've heard that it can cause trouble with some catalytic converters. Unfortunately I haven't had an opportunity to try it for myself as there is nowhere I can get concentrations above E10.

Governments are encouraging the use of ethanol and other biofuels because it's less painful than the real solutions, most of which involve driving less.

ithaqua10 said @ 1:28pm GMT on 16th Aug
to play devil's advocate here, i live in michigan farm country right now (not by choice but by circumstance), and many of the fields of corn, didn't grow because it was too hot and too dry here this year. burning it will at least return much of the nutrients (corn is horrible on the soil, depletes it which is why farmers rotate their crops now) they sucked out of it trying to grow, but unable to get enough water/cooler nights to properly pollinate, and produce ears of corn.

The old adage was corn should be knee high by fourth of July, here we are in august and some corn crops still aren't knee high.

sanepride said @ 3:55pm GMT on 16th Aug [Score:1 Informative]
Unfortunately current models predict persistent drought in the US for the foreseeable future.
What's infuriating is the total political retreat in addressing the actual causes of this preventable disaster.

yunnaf said @ 4:47pm GMT on 16th Aug
Can someone clarify that corn for human consumption is yellow corn whereas corn for ethanol, stock feed and fructose is white corn. If so, we have to examine which type of corn the farmer decides is most profitable.

bbqkink said @ 7:22pm GMT on 16th Aug
There are a lot of different types of corn. seed corn, feed corn,
sweet corn( Eating) kind and color has little to do with any of them. Although seed and feed corn are basically yellow and my faviorate type of sweet corn is yellow and white mixed.

Mixed White and Yellow Kernels: Honey and Cream, Butter and Sugar, Gleam and Gold, Sprite, Sweet Sue, Sweet Sal

http://www.uri.edu/ce/factsheets/prints/corn.html

ethanos said @ 5:31pm GMT on 18th Aug
the best thing about ethanol is that it lets you drive around to find food that isn't corn.
--ethanos