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Saturday, 14 July 2012
quote [ there seems to be a collective reluctance to accept the logical conclusion — that there is no hope of saving the global coral reef ecosystem ]
A very grim assessment.
Ocean Acidification is an ongoing, measurable consequence of anthropogenic CO2 in the atmosphere.
[sci&tech] [by sanepride@10:19pmGMT] [+10 Interesting] Full NY Times op-ed: tl;dr version: Due to a deadly combination of human causes- overfishing, ocean acidification from carbon absorption, and general pollution, Earth's coral reefs are doomed. Kaput. Locked in an irreversible death spiral. Resources now being expended to save them would be better spent figuring out how to deal with a post-coral reef world. Update: in the NYT Dot Earth blog Andrew Revkin cites marine biologists who both agree and disagree with the assessment in this op-ed. I hope the ones who disagree turn out to be right. |
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moriati
said @ 10:23pm GMT on 14th Jul
[Score:2 Insightful]
So long, and thanks for all the fish. |
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profetscott
said @ 11:27pm GMT on 14th Jul
I camped out at a location in Southern Baja in the sea of Cortez. It had had campers for over twenty years, and that was the last year camping was allowed there. There is a Coral Reef there. It was not apparently growing. A couple of years later. I visited the area in a boat, and did some free diving. I was surprised how much growth had taken place in the couple of years without the campers around. Sorry to hear that they are doomed, if they are . |
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-_-
said @ 11:32pm GMT on 14th Jul
[Score:1 Informative]
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zenviper
said @ 1:27am GMT on 15th Jul
[Score:1 Interesting]
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damnit
said @ 3:56am GMT on 15th Jul
I miss the old days. Nip slips were acceptable and nobody bats an eye |
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tickaz
said @ 4:11am GMT on 15th Jul
they bat something else though. |
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endopol
said @ 8:38am GMT on 17th Jul
I like the present day, when porn is plentiful and separate from terrible music. I have to admit that I watched the whole thing, though. |
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mechanical contrivance
said @ 2:19am GMT on 15th Jul
Who else heard the post title in their head in the movie trailer guy's voice? |
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Barnabas_Truman
said @ 2:28am GMT on 15th Jul
Grim news indeed. I am reminded of a depressing but informative children's book called A World without Fish on a similar topic that I skimmed last week. I despise seafood but recognize its importance. |
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structured_spirits
said @ 3:36am GMT on 15th Jul
The conspiracy theory angle on climate collapse is that the two prevailing slave mythologies are that either we can consume our way out of climate collapse, (continue to support our economic system), or that it's already too late to stop climate collapse and we're all fucker, (so we might as well continue to support our economic system.) This pro-ecoterrorism documentary posits that the only real viable option left is to dismantle the economic system from the supply side. I don't really have strong opinions on this issue. But some people might find it interesting if a total downer. |
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sanepride
said @ 2:35pm GMT on 15th Jul
Don't forget about the most prominent conspiracy theory angle- that the whole thing is a hoax perpetrated by opportunistic environmentalists and greedy scientists seeking funds. The funny thing is that your conspiracy theories are actually more plausible. |
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incpenners
said @ 3:49am GMT on 15th Jul
A very grim assessment. Oh thank God! |
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azazel
said @ 6:20am GMT on 15th Jul
Not a big fan of coral reefs? |
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cb361
said @ 8:20am GMT on 15th Jul
[Score:1 Funny]
Coral reefs killed his father. |
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pleaides
said @ 9:05am GMT on 15th Jul
So Penners is Inigo Montoya? |
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cb361
said @ 4:38pm GMT on 15th Jul
Yep. That's why they're killing them all. To get the right one. |
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ckfahrenheit
said @ 8:20am GMT on 15th Jul
polypsist? |
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sanepride
said @ 1:29pm GMT on 15th Jul
Coral reefs tend to vote Democrat. So fuck 'em. |
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incpenners
said @ 5:13pm GMT on 15th Jul
[Score:1 Funny]
We need to identify more 'problems', so that we can take things away from people in order to fix the problems. or This is, to me, the synthesis of this worldview with which I now found myself disenchanted: that everything is always wrong. |
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Barnabas_Truman
said @ 5:28pm GMT on 15th Jul
Would you rather the problems not be fixed? Why do you hate America so much? |
Dioxin
said @ 8:41pm GMT on 15th Jul
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cb361
said @ 8:43pm GMT on 15th Jul
[Score:2 Funny]
"America must withdraw, or the Tribbles get it." |
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arrowhen
said @ 8:47pm GMT on 15th Jul
Oh, you mean like the "problem" of not wanting to pay your fair share of taxes so you can take things like food, shelter, and adequate health care away from poor people in order to fix it? |
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arctan
said @ 9:02pm GMT on 15th Jul
[Score:4 Underrated]
I too had a period of time when I was convinced that all attempts at regulating my behavior or forcing me to give up things I wanted were just cruel, malign and arbitrary fictions created by power-mad tyrants -- and where I not only accepted my ignorance of the objective proven negative consequences of my actions but was actively *proud* of such ignorance, because I lived in a universe of circular reasoning where observable, obvious facts did not exist and only my feelings about the people telling them to me mattered. I was convinced that the real truth of the world was that it was a cornucopian wonderland made for my benefit, that nothing I actually did could be wrong or hurtful, and that all bad things were engineered by the people in authority over me just to spite me. See, my excuse is I was five years old, though. What's yours? |
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spite48
said @ 9:19pm GMT on 15th Jul
[Score:1 Insightful]
I'm not a very good citizen of the earth. I don't recycle if it isn't convenient, and I don't in any way mitigate my consumption. However, I do think there is a good chance that we're dooming ourselves. If I'm wrong - FANTASTIC! But it is a bit idiotic to bury our heads in the sand and ignore warning signs. The evidence is that we are dramatically altering the world in ways which are either negatively influencing biodiversity and biomass, or in ways which will have an unpredictable result. If you discount evidence, then logic will take you there. I we assume that everything will be fine despite on our sheer numbers, as well as our industrial, commercial and agricultural activities, deforestation, floating garbage islands in the oceans, and the relatively small number of nations which significantly control chemical waste, air pollution or effluent - That's sort of like assuming that our goldfish will be fine if we keep pissing in the fishbowl. If we ignore the fact that a few fish start to look ill, well, we shouldn't be surprised if all the fish die. |
Dioxin
said @ 9:01am GMT on 15th Jul
[Score:1 Insightful]
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kichijoii
said @ 4:39am GMT on 15th Jul
Wow those rebuttals were great. Basically, two of them wrote "We disagree because giving up hope is bad." Also, one wrote, "It will be okay once greenhouse gases are stopped and reduced." (Uh-huh, like that will ever happen.) |
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cb361
said @ 10:00am GMT on 15th Jul
Man is a nuisance. He eats up his food supply in the forest, then migrates to our green belts and ravages our crops. The sooner he is exterminated, the better. |
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LeavemeAlone
said @ 12:39am GMT on 16th Jul
Sure thing, Agent Smith... |
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sanepride
said @ 5:09am GMT on 16th Jul
I believe that was Dr. Zaius. |
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sanepride
said @ 1:34pm GMT on 15th Jul
[Score:1 Insightful]
I'm no marine biologist, and the dissenters are, so it seemed fair to include their views. Nevertheless it seems their prevailing hope is that natural evolutionary adaptation can somehow outrun the rapidly escalating anthropogenic processes. And this very sadly doesn't seem like a likely scenario. |
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Lacuna
said @ 2:53pm GMT on 15th Jul
Unfortunately, that hope is misplaced. If we killed the coral, and we keep on doing what we're doing, whose to say anything will be able to adapt? I mean, other than pests that love humans, and have been successful in their co-evolution with us, we are capable of driving pretty much every other species to extinction for a variety of reasons. |
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damnit
said @ 7:34am GMT on 15th Jul
I'll miss the lines at Golden Coral. |
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cb361
said @ 3:31pm GMT on 15th Jul
How do we sleep while our beds are burning? |