Sensible Erection | Congressmen Seek To Lift Propaganda Ban

Friday, 15 June 2012

quote [ The bill's supporters say the informational material used overseas to influence foreign audiences is too good to not use at home, and that new techniques are needed to help fight Al-Qaeda, a borderless enemy whose own propaganda reaches Americans online. ]

Ugh.

[politics] [by bltrocker@2:49pmGMT] [+10 WTF]

Comments

Croatia said @ 2:54pm GMT on 15th Jun
-Yawn-

Am I the only one who couldnt give a shit?

We already have Fox News, who fucking cares?

GordonGuano said @ 3:02pm GMT on 15th Jun
It's the idea of codifying into law fear of an informed populace that's distressing. Ingsoc put more effort into covering its tracks.

lilmookieesquire said @ 3:08pm GMT on 15th Jun
Yes you are.

I'd like Fox to be the outlier, not the norm.

Goddamn it. We were suppose to have flying cars to offset fascism by now.

Where are my god damned flying cars?

lilmookieesquire said @ 4:34pm GMT on 15th Jun [Score:1 Insightful]
Sorry I'm just pissed about the year 2000 not having flying cars mostly.

sanepride said @ 6:45pm GMT on 15th Jun
Yeah, me too. But on the bright side, we also haven't had World War III. At least not yet.

US dept. of Truth said @ 7:02pm GMT on 15th Jun [Score:1 Funny]
*This message brought to you by the US State Department.

Your State Department: working hard every day to prevent World War III.

WikiLeaks said @ 3:23am GMT on 16th Jun [Score:1 Informative]
That's not what these documents say...

chucky said @ 8:03pm GMT on 15th Jun
You can have flying cars when you can get the fucktard who still feel its okay to drive while drunk, or now worse texting off the road. Just imagine the kind of dammage one of these mouth breathers could do if they were flying and have an accident. Think about this seriously before giving them the keys to a vehicle that will realy force multiply there stupidity.

sua_sponte said @ 8:33pm GMT on 15th Jun
When I take driving advice from a three foot tall possessed talking doll, it's time to give up my driver's license.

blibblob said @ 11:02pm GMT on 15th Jun
The FAA has approved some designs.

Urg, and I can't find it again, but I remember a few years back discussions about widespread flying cars only being allowed if they were fully automated. Which makes perfect fucking sense.

cb361 said @ 12:03am GMT on 16th Jun [Score:2 Funny]
Sounds like you HATE FREEDOM.

lilmookieesquire said @ 2:46am GMT on 16th Jun
Um.

I'm glad you have that forward-looking dare-to-dream vision...

... but I'm pretty sure they'd have to be automatic, since you couldn't risk crashes, running out of fuel, or non-or-low-maintenance issues.

snowfox said @ 7:10am GMT on 16th Jun
It would never be safe, even if automatic. Since it crashes if things go wrong, you would rarely have a minor accident. You'd be lucky if it at least crashed somewhere that didn't kill innocent bystanders.

cb361 said @ 12:26pm GMT on 16th Jun
All the RD capital should be diverted towards building sexy fembots. Then everybody will be happy.

mechanical contrivance said @ 2:35am GMT on 17th Jun
Even the hetero women.

bltrocker said @ 4:45pm GMT on 15th Jun
You probably aren't, but when I see this kind of attitude, I get all "How much will it take for you people to fucking DO something?"

Stratafyre said @ 4:52pm GMT on 15th Jun [Score:1 Underrated]
I'd just as soon wait until we can do it the "Easy" way, rather than try to play their rigged game.

sanepride said @ 6:57pm GMT on 15th Jun
Fox news may be an unofficial propaganda outlet of the Republican right, (as MSNBC is for the left) but they are most certainly not speaking for the government. In fact they have obviously been quite a vocal critic of the government since Obama took office.

theolypse said @ 12:09am GMT on 16th Jun
"Democratic Party" doesn't begin with an 'l'.

lilmookieesquire said @ 3:13pm GMT on 15th Jun [Score:3 Insightful]
In December, the Pentagon used software to monitor the Twitter debate over Bradley Manning’s pre-trial hearing; another program being developed by the Pentagon would design software to create “sock puppets” on social media outlets

The "Ipenners 2.0" I assume?

smoug said @ 3:20pm GMT on 15th Jun
So the pentagon is going to pay millions for a spam-bot that posts pro-U.S. commentary rather than links to porn and bootleg software.

Omegaphobic said @ 4:04pm GMT on 15th Jun [Score:5 Funny]
ENLARGR AND STRONGER AND BETTER DEM0CRACY NOW

AFRAID COUNTRIES WILL LAUGH AT YOUR GOVT

SHOW THEM HOW IT CAN FEEL AND TURN LAUGHS INTO MOANS!

XXXPAND YOUR DEM0CRACY NOW!!

Supreme_Coconut said @ 6:49am GMT on 16th Jun
ENGORGE!

conception said @ 6:26pm GMT on 15th Jun
Ipenners is just Bosco 2.0.

sanepride said @ 6:43pm GMT on 15th Jun
So you're saying incpenners is really a lefty pretending to be a righty as some kind of provocative social 'experiment'?
I gotta admit the thought crossed my mind a few times. Thing is, there are plenty of people who really are that obstinate and unyielding in their very narrow political mindsets. Of course, this being the internets, anything is possible.

conception said @ 8:24pm GMT on 15th Jun
It helps me to sleep at night to think he's Bosco 2.0.

sua_sponte said @ 8:35pm GMT on 15th Jun
Incpenners is actually the huge, hairy, sweaty right testicle of William Shatner. The one with all the skin tabs.

sua_sponte said @ 8:35pm GMT on 15th Jun
...try and sleep with THAT visual in your head.

Naruki said @ 3:20am GMT on 16th Jun
... with your mouth open, invitingly...

sua_sponte said @ 4:40am GMT on 16th Jun [Score:1 Funny]
...because incpenners is, indeed, a teabagger...

foobar said @ 8:55pm GMT on 15th Jun
Poe's law.

sanepride said @ 9:22pm GMT on 15th Jun
Self-parody, to be sure.

lilmookieesquire said @ 6:44am GMT on 16th Jun
It's you isn't it. Like when you get on the whiskey or something?

sanepride said @ 3:22pm GMT on 16th Jun
Now that would be funny. But in truth when I drink I actually get smarter...and nicer.

mechanical contrivance said @ 2:37am GMT on 17th Jun
I become a normal human being when I drink. Unfortunately, I don't drink.

zenviper said @ 7:08am GMT on 16th Jun
What happened to Bosco?

mechanical contrivance said @ 2:39am GMT on 17th Jun
Everyone started buying Hersey's Syrup instead.

dawonga said @ 4:50pm GMT on 15th Jun [Score:1 Interesting]
I used to work for the American foreign service as a Canadian. Having a law passed where they couldn't spread propaganda to their own citizens actually a point of pride for many of the American diplomats. That of course meant they could spread it to all the non-Americans they wanted. Some of it was pretty useful like the Voice of America radio stations and English teaching videos.

lilmookieesquire said @ 5:39pm GMT on 15th Jun
The JapanTimes in Tokyo drips more pro-american drivel than foxnews.
I mean, I have nothing against being pro-american. There are good things about America... but the JT reminded me of a stalker-psycho-girlfriend.

JapanTimes said @ 11:04pm GMT on 15th Jun
When I say "Just business", I mean that I love you! When I say I no interested no more, I mean that I long for you! And when I say that I missed you-! Are you going to fight for my love?

b said @ 2:04am GMT on 16th Jun [Score:1 Funny]
They hire people to be Canadian? That's bullshit, taking jobs away from actual Canadians!

spite48 said @ 5:37pm GMT on 15th Jun [Score:1 Informative]
I decided to try to do a little research about this, because I wanted to see how the legislation defined propaganda.

There is a counterpoint by one of the proponents, which suggests that the article in the main post isn't correct:

http://mynorthwest.com/11/680559/Rep-says-outrage-over-propaganda-bill-dead-wrong

"Smith said he wants to be clear that the bill leaves in place the ban of government-funded or created propaganda for use in the U.S. "This bill restates, in several places, the clear prohibition on distributing any propaganda intended for a domestic U.S. audience, or to influence them," Smith said. "

Another different interpretation:

http://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speech/new-government-propaganda-bill-positive-step-first-amendment

Here is the link to the amendment:

http://www.rules.house.gov/amendments/THORNB_024_xml514121456525652.pdf

I think this is the full text of the bill here:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hr4310/text

spite48 said @ 5:43pm GMT on 15th Jun
So at the end of the day, what exactly is changed by this amendment?

Propaganda is difficult to control, and difficult to distinguish from political "spin", whether distributed by partisan news sources, or government agencies, or promotion of specific programs by government.

Watch Fox news for 15 minutes and question whether there are any effective controls on Propaganda:

1 Information, esp. of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.
2 The dissemination of such information as a political strategy.

bltrocker said @ 12:05am GMT on 16th Jun
"intended"

That seems loaded to me. If there is a ton of propaganda all over the internet, you could say it's intended for anyone.

From the mynorthwest.com article:
"'If you put something out on the Internet or social media, even though it's intended for a foreign audience, it may well be viewed by a domestic audience because it's the Internet, it's everywhere,' Smith said."

I'm not usually a slippery slope kind of guy, but it is a quick jaunt from sock puppets, ads, etc. on spiegel.de to a bunch of bullshit on cnn.com. Or hell, there is an international audience here. Is it okay to have official propaganda all over SE because the government is trying to push some agenda?

spite48 said @ 12:18am GMT on 16th Jun
I guess the point for me is that if we can define propaganda in a way which makes it reasonably possible to objectively determine whether or not any particular communication fits the definition, then we run up against the second challenge of determine what sort of propaganda should be allowed as legitimate, and what is harmful, and then whether it is appropriate for such propaganda to be distributed anywhere or whether there should be restrictions on domestic or foreign application of that communication, and then figuring out how we can apply those regional restrictions in the day of global communications.

Maybe we want to say that the government and its agents are not allowed to knowingly lie, or present a unfairly biased position to anyone, except under specific circumstances defined as wartime misinformation to enemy agents and similar circumstances, but these things are so subjective and difficult to prove and enforce as to be virtually meaningless.

sanepride said @ 6:55pm GMT on 15th Jun
It looks like this may actually be nothing, but it is an interesting discussion. Sure, my initial reaction to this is outrage, but indeed, in this age of borderless media, what is really the point of the ban on domestic government propaganda? If corporations now have the same free speech rights as individuals, only with unlimited resources and little oversight, why shouldn't government have the same privileges?
I would also point out that the GW Bush administration managed to get away with blatant violations of the propaganda ban with virtually no accountability. So if it isn't even being enforced when it's clearly been violated, why bother?

dangerm00se said @ 7:47pm GMT on 15th Jun
Like these assholes aren't enough

dangerm00se said @ 7:48pm GMT on 15th Jun [Score:1 Informative]

Transfer said @ 1:53am GMT on 16th Jun
http://youtu.be/sascHoIYdTQ

Transfer said @ 1:53am GMT on 16th Jun [Score:3 Funny]

lilmookieesquire said @ 2:54am GMT on 16th Jun
I find that extremely satisfying.

I like the people that are all chill about it.

The girl that was like "You have a nice day" was hella cool.

lilmookieesquire said @ 2:56am GMT on 16th Jun
@2:14. Good people.

foobar said @ 5:04am GMT on 16th Jun [Score:1 Insightful]
Nope. Demon.

citizenQ said @ 2:43am GMT on 16th Jun
these are 3 questions in a row that I answer all the time on little customs forms: 1. Country you are a citizen of 2. Country you were born in 3. Last country visited

I haven't filled them out using exclamation points yet, but I'm tempted, just for the lulz.

Raikva said @ 7:47am GMT on 16th Jun
Sock Puppetry: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks

But every country has their information warriors online - after a while you start to recognise some of the pixels.

Isosceles Lock™ said @ 4:24pm GMT on 16th Jun
Are videogames not enough? Anybody that saw even a second of E3 "coverage" knows that propaganda is alive and well.

"Welcome to the offices of Economic and Manpower Analyses here at our historic and sprawling West Point Academy campus! My name is Mindy! It is my distinct pleasure to introduce you to a loving father of three (and a champion of the sanctioned use of armed force in pursuit of policy objectives). Ladies and gentlemen, put your hands together for the project director of our newest recruitment strategy; our mission to staff future combat systems through current technologies. Without any further ado, I give to you Colonel Casey Wardynski!"

"Thank you! Let me begin with some sentimental appeals to our national myths; assorted clichés coined by the state; the ideological shorthand meant to sweep your private doubts [away] of this virtual training course. This portal; this Trojan Horse that you living idiots paid for and actually rolled into your own kids’ rooms."

"Oops, did I just say that out loud? Oh, well, it’s not like it’s something new. It’s just the logical extension of the decades of bilge water that you’ve let us pump into your homes. The pink noise that hums away in the background while you run the gauntlet we force on you everyday. The billowing candy floss that helps to soften the blow. Deep down you’ve always known that your children already belong to us, so why don’t you cut the outraged parent routine, shut your mouth and get back in your seat. Your children already belong to us. What are you? You will pass on. And they won’t know a fucking thing but this 'community,' this real life Ender’s Game. Forget what you think you know."

mrcucumber said @ 11:08pm GMT on 16th Jun
nice thumb

structured_spirits said @ 8:20pm GMT on 17th Jun
Once again I'm shocked to see people who would have been up in arms over this during the Bush presidency say big deal, it doesn't really matter anyway. Yeah because saying it's cool for the government to lie to it's own people is the mark of a transparent administration. Fuck you Amercia.

structured_spirits said @ 8:33pm GMT on 17th Jun
And furthermore, fuck all those Washington assholes who are bitching about finally being called out for creating StuxNet. I seem to remember some serious business here about a year ago when I made the claim that Stux amounted to an attack on Iran by the US, and sensible people were all like "The US doesn't want to antagonize the Iran, it was probably the Israelis."

The US is pulling so much shit lately that even the damn CIA/military is leaking their shit. The solution? Let's start giving everyone who works for us lie detector tests. The soviets were never this bad. For fucks sake whats happened o this country.