Tuesday, 13 March 2012

How I Helped Destroy Star Wars Galaxies

quote [ I was dumbstruck. I didn’t respond and started taking notes. I took a lot of notes — entire composition books sat next to my monitor. In hindsight, 90% of what I noted was useless, but that 10% — that was worth something. ]

Good read. This is why I prefer the games at zombo.com. Extended has a video on the latest viral math.

What's up with the whole 998,001 thing? This guy explains the math (or I beleive he would say maths)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daro6K6mym8&feature=player_embedded

Probably been posted at some point, but good cosplay (ever so slightly NSFW)
http://unrealitymag.com/index.php/2011/06/30/a-gallery-of-the-most-accurate-female-video-game-costumes/

Need that M4A as an MP3 and don't want to mess with a transcoder application? This site is pretty cool, is free, and I haven't run into any catches yet.
http://www.online-convert.com/
[games] [by bltrocker@5:03amGMT] [+10 Interesting]

Comments

lilmookieesquire said @ 5:19am GMT on 13th Mar [Score:5 Underrated]
It's funny. He's not actually playing the game.
He calls the game "work".

He's also "what's wrong with America".
He has the nerve to game the system... exploiting everything for his profit...
Fuck. He even hired people to play the fucking game.
Then complain when the nature of the rules change to stop him.

Fuck this guy.
tickaz said @ 6:28am GMT on 13th Mar [Score:3]
I think the point of the article is that in hindsight, he realised that is a fair judgement of him. He never actually asks for redemption or remorse, but the tone of the article (to me) seemed to suggest that he was somewhat apologetic for his actions.

But yeah, he was what was wrong with the game; and in a more general sense people like him are what's wrong with the world. Unfortunately for the real world there isn't a dev team working in the interests of the common folk who can just change the rules when someone becomes too powerful.
tickaz said @ 6:36am GMT on 13th Mar
woops, bit of a typo in there. I meant "he feels remorse"...

I trust you guys can figure out what I meant.
blacksun said @ 6:46am GMT on 13th Mar
With the amounts that mmos earn, (well, WoW at least) there should be devs that actually play the game as high level "game characters" of sorts. These characters could be allies or foes with large amount of in game power. In this way, they can keep tabs on what's happening in game, and put a check on abuse of the system. Not in a way that changes the rules for everyone, but in a way that works within the rules to challenge those who abuse the system.

This, or something similar may be the only way to save a genre that's become nothing more than mashing buttons while watching a rather boring movie. Effecting massive change within an MMO world, to the point of even destroying or conquering the entire world is the future.
lilmookieesquire said @ 6:57am GMT on 13th Mar
Yes. But maybe in an observational role, otherwise it might lend itself to too much in-game politics, no?
DarkShadowRavenDragonGrrl69 said @ 9:34am GMT on 13th Mar
Yeah, and they could use some snazzy title like "Video Champion" or something.
Barnabas_Truman said @ 7:03am GMT on 13th Mar [Score:2 Insightful]
And yet somehow NetHack is still fun.
theolypse said @ 12:39pm GMT on 13th Mar [Score:1 Insightful]
NetHack has never been fun. Convert to DCSS and be redeemed.
DarkShadowRavenDragonGrrl69 said @ 8:49pm GMT on 13th Mar
I enjoyed the bits I played of Elona. I think the graphics and JRPG flavor helped. Still way too challenging for me though.
psychotim said @ 9:15pm GMT on 13th Mar
I decided to play DCSS after I got my first Nethack ascend.

It's... been a few years.
Barnabas_Truman said @ 1:30am GMT on 14th Mar
Eh. I tried DCSS but never really got into it. Might give it another go someday.

NetHack, on the other hand, I've ascended three times and still find it fun and challenging.
clumsy_juggler said @ 12:39pm GMT on 13th Mar
I play a smaller MMO (Vendetta Online) which is run by 4 developers who will often show up in game. They also take and implement player suggestions quite often. It all seems to work quite well for preventing exploits of this sort.
foobar said @ 6:39pm GMT on 13th Mar [Score:5 Funny]
Nerf Wall Street.
Mitt Romney said @ 6:57am GMT on 13th Mar
Whoa, my friend, my friend. This man worked hard for his success and created good jobs for several dirty, unbaptized foreigners. What do you have against success?
lilmookieesquire said @ 7:34am GMT on 13th Mar [Score:1 Informative]
My ex was a corporation.
Joe_Luma said @ 9:44am GMT on 13th Mar
Hey, a marriage is a team effort!
Dioxin said @ 8:06am GMT on 13th Mar
Fuck this guy, or fuck the guys who created the environment that let this guy thrive?
Didel said @ 7:09pm GMT on 13th Mar [Score:1 Insightful]
One of the things I didn't quite grasp was that he says he made a low six figures, and was making more than he could at his normal job. But he was also playing the game 18 hours a day at times, spent a year planning on what he was going to do before he ever had a chance to make money, and even had his wife help out. So take that low six figures, add in a year of unpaid labor, paying a part time employee, and when you actually do the hourly conversion, I have a feeling he wasn't making as much as he would have at a normal job, it's just he worked twice as many hours and had assistance.

So yeah, it's like "I made all this cash! But I totally failed to consider the incredible amount of time it took me to accumulate it!" If he enjoyed doing it, more power to him, I just think he overestimated the amount of money he actually made when considering things like opportunity cost.
mrcucumber said @ 9:57pm GMT on 13th Mar
But what he gained was time. He now has a house, and it took him less time to accumulate those earnings, leaving him with another year to generate income over the course of his life.

Whereas if he worked for someone else, he might take twice as long to earn the same, without the nice house and nifty car.
Dioxin said @ 11:27pm GMT on 13th Mar
He was also working in something he enjoyed. Even before he made money from the game he was already a massive fan. That's what got him to spend so much time on the game in the first place. Wouldn't you prefer to get paid six figures to indulge in your personal obsession rather than earn half of that working 9-5 on a project you wouldn't give two shits about?
downstairsc said @ 12:48am GMT on 14th Mar
Turns out... not so much:

http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/12/14/the-overjustification-effect/
aliron said @ 2:47am GMT on 14th Mar
This is probably the only article on that site I did not understand. So you're saying he's overjustifying his past actions with false hindsight?
theolypse said @ 5:28am GMT on 14th Mar
Let me try. The first bit that might run counter to your framework is this: you don't always know your motivations, even when you think you do. The prefrontal cortex is a bolt-on, evolutionarily, to an already quite efficient decision-making mechanism. Research has shown people acting moments before they report having decided to act. Extrapolate out to a larger scale, and you have cognitive dissonance being usually resolved in favor of the actions, not the beliefs, which is also a well-supported trend. We change our minds about why we're doing what we're doing all the time, far more often than we change what we're doing.

When you are paid highly for a task, the research referenced by that article found, you tend to attribute doing the task to the payment. When you are paid trivially, you tend to attribute to a desire to do the task. A similar effect is shown in the You Like Whom You Help tendency that was posted about here a year or two ago, to broad misunderstanding.

All cf., "I wouldn't want to make a job of [my hobby]."
theolypse said @ 5:21am GMT on 14th Mar [Score:1 Insightful]
And here we have a lesson for you about Opportunity and the horrid random uncaring of the universe. See, I know exactly what sort of job could motivate me to put in that kind of effort, but it's not one I can just up and begin, as he did. No, first I have to put in eight years of antipaid labor. Then I get to pull routine 12-hour days. And only after a decade of making those six figures will I be out of debt for it.

The flaw of runaway Capitalism and the diffuse paradigm it supports is to assume that people "deserve" their "earnings", or that there is even a direct correlation between effort and result.
atter_cob said @ 7:24am GMT on 15th Mar
I don't think you got the point of the article.
sacrelicious said @ 11:14am GMT on 15th Mar
-or-

he exploited a flaw in the game. his exploitation of that flaw exposed the flaw, which lead to attempts to fix that flaw in that game, and in future games of a similar type. without someone like him the flaw would become apparent much more slowly, given more time to become entrenched in that and a myriad of similar games without enough people noticing it or taking it seriously, possibly until it simply came to be an accepted part of the gaming environment. thus his extreme actions improved gaming for the average gamer.
Cakkafracle said @ 5:36am GMT on 13th Mar
what a ga-douche
Asscheeks Akimbo said @ 5:55am GMT on 13th Mar
Regardless of your feelings about his actions, it is a fascinating look into the mind of an insanely driven person.
tickaz said @ 6:19am GMT on 13th Mar
I gotta hand it to him, he managed to buy a house and a car off the earnings he made from the game. He was the 1%.
-_- said @ 6:25am GMT on 13th Mar
I had a buddy that was making 3K$/month playing SWG back when he had a bad habit of staying awake for days on end ... SWG was how he supported himself and his habit.
Crazy fucking world.
tickaz said @ 6:33am GMT on 13th Mar
At least he wasn't committing crimes to fuel his habit... well I hope he wasn't anyway.
tickaz said @ 6:31am GMT on 13th Mar
That video about 1/998001 was actually quite interesting, I ended up watching a few of his clips. The first one was the best though.
sherlock said @ 7:00am GMT on 13th Mar [Score:2 Funny]
You forgot the photo of the author:
GordonGuano said @ 7:50am GMT on 13th Mar
It does gall a bit that he talks about his wife supporting his 18-hour-a-day gaming schedule while I'm working on my third year of celibacy.
bruceski said @ 8:32am GMT on 13th Mar
She was against it until he made a lot of money.
GordonGuano said @ 9:20am GMT on 13th Mar
Doesn't really speak well of either of them, does it? Maybe solitude isn't so bad after all. I can sit on my mountaintop and ponder the koan: what is the sound of one hand fapping?
Dioxin said @ 9:35am GMT on 13th Mar
How did that not really speak well of either of them? She was against him doing what looked to be a crazy assed waste of time and money (quitting work to run 8 copies of the game in parallel), but his crazy assed apparent waste of time and money actually panned out, so she stopped hating it.
GordonGuano said @ 9:49am GMT on 13th Mar
It makes her seem a bit mercenary (I'm not saying she's a gold digger but...) and by the author's own admission he ruined the economies of several servers. FWIW, for six figures I could probably put up with behavior way more questionable than pushing pixels around in a silly game.




Dioxin said @ 10:02am GMT on 13th Mar
How does that make her, a non SWG obsessed person, seem mercenary? If your SO told you there was money to be made in something crazy sounding, but they were right because they had the facts when you didn't, would changing your mind to support their business then make you mercenary?

And where did he mention he ruined the economies of several servers? All I see is evidence he ruined the economies for gold sellers before partnering up with one. He "destroyed" SWG by showing the devs just how much some people wanted to get the top rewards for no work. The devs then miscalculated by giving those people exactly what they wanted, only to ruin the sense of accomplishment for everyone who did work hard for their end game powers.
GordonGuano said @ 10:40am GMT on 13th Mar
When the pursuit of that money is likely wrecking the SO's health but it stops being a concern once the ducats start piling up, yeah, I'd call it mercenary. But as I said, I'd probably put up with even worse for that kind of money. For all I know, she's less mercenary than I am. I'm not holding either of us up as paragons of ethics, you'll note.

And I would call monopolizing game real estate and then jacking prices up to increase demand for the game currency you sell to be ruining the game and its economy. If you don't then we're playing for different reasons, which is fine.

Of course, this is all distraction from my original, main point, which is that this guy was married while I, who have never poopsocked, haven't even had a date in over two years. TANJ.
Dioxin said @ 11:03am GMT on 13th Mar
Where did it mention she was getting worried over his physical health, rather than getting worried over him devoting all his time to a mental fixation that actually panned out?

And all his monopolized real estate could offer was convenience. Players didn't have to trade him their goods at a premium, but they did. "People used my vendors because they were closer, and for no other reason." Unlike a real world monopoly, if people didn't want to pay his prices they could take their in game money elsewhere quite easily.
GordonGuano said @ 11:39am GMT on 13th Mar
Perhaps people will be around long enough to adapt and turn into bronzed bodybuilders by eating Hot Pockets, never seeing the sun, and spending 18+ hours a day on their asses staring at multiple screens. Until then, that's how I'm betting. I'm glad for him that his obsession paid off, but for lots of people who similarly neglect family, household maintenance, hygiene and health, it doesn't.

But as I said, we're likely playing for different reasons. If I were this guy, I'd have been using all my clout to make Gungans playable* and ricockulously overpowered.

*I never played SWG, but I'm assuming they weren't.
Dioxin said @ 11:42pm GMT on 13th Mar
It doesn't say he only ate hot pockets. Probably not considering he also had someone else in the house who he never mentioned also lived that way. It doesn't say he never saw the sun. He probably didn't in the first few weeks but there's not indication he turned into a long time shut in. Even if he did, there's no indication his new daily habits differed in any way from how he ran his previous business. It doesn't say he always spent 18 hours a day on the job for the whole two years, again he only mentions that his first few weeks were a blur but later he ended up employing a number of people full time to assist him. Maybe she was mercenary, maybe not, but the article itself gives no indication of the reason for her initial worry beyond the fact that for the first few weeks he was spending all his time on something that didn't pay him anything in return, and didn't sound like it ever could.
b said @ 2:32pm GMT on 13th Mar
poopsocked?
GordonGuano said @ 2:39pm GMT on 13th Mar
It's when, rather than stop playing an MMO to tend to your body's needs, you defecate into a sock so as not to break the group dynamic. When you live on Hot Pockets and Mountain Dew, it's not likely to occur more than once or twice a week.
b said @ 5:40pm GMT on 13th Mar
I did have to google that. Initially I thought it was a euphemism for anal sex. Like, the rectum is a sock for your dick. Hence, poop sock. You learn something new every day.
swiggy said @ 4:27am GMT on 14th Mar
The rectum thing is pink sock.

DON'T google that one.
theolypse said @ 5:30am GMT on 14th Mar
Oh, please. Like you never read through your school nurse's skin diseases reference.
b said @ 6:37am GMT on 14th Mar
Come on, there's nothing wrong with a little distended rectum.
Supreme_Coconut said @ 3:10pm GMT on 13th Mar [Score:1 Underrated]
You need to get out more.
theolypse said @ 5:29am GMT on 14th Mar
I should think he wants to get in more.
b said @ 6:37am GMT on 14th Mar
Less poopsocking.
swiggy said @ 7:35am GMT on 14th Mar
You never know...possibly more.
chold_numa said @ 7:56am GMT on 13th Mar
I think it makes a good case for property taxes and shows what an (effective) monopoly can do to destroy an economy (albeit a somewhat limited one). Also, once there was a significant paradigm shift (people becoming Jedi via the quest chain), the his market was effectively gone. In a real world scenario the monopoly would have lobbied the government for a subsidy.

Also, I don't think this guy would have paid too much tax on his real cash earnings.
mrcucumber said @ 4:54pm GMT on 13th Mar
I'm no expert, but if his deposits went over 10K, and interest showing on his bank statement reflect his earnings, wouldn't that raise flags?
chold_numa said @ 9:28pm GMT on 13th Mar
It sounds like his broker was located overseas as were his employees. Given the nature of the business, he could easily move the cash across in small amounts when required. Use an overseas credit card for day-to-day expenses. If he was buying the house, the loan could have been against his wife's income into which he paid against his overseas account. Or use a wire transfer service in small amounts. Lots of ways he could get around tax. Much like a multinational company.

On the other hand, he could be legit, but he doesn't sound like he's been overly gifted in the ethics department.
kichijoii said @ 8:00am GMT on 13th Mar [Score:2]
Goldman Sachs needs to give this guy a call. His talents for exploitation are clearly being wasted here.
swiggy said @ 8:39am GMT on 13th Mar
I was going to hidey-box a relevant section of Cory Doctrow's for the win, But I can't find the relevant code, so just CTRL+F for "Prikkel equations."
swiggy said @ 9:04am GMT on 13th Mar
I just realized I used "relevant" twice there.
the9thcircle said @ 1:10pm GMT on 13th Mar
i hate it when i do that.
happiest_sadist said @ 12:53am GMT on 14th Mar
+

Connor Prikkel sometimes thought of math as a beautiful girl, the kind of girl that he'd dreamt of wooing, dating, even marrying, while sitting in the back of any class that wasn't related to math, daydreaming. A beautiful girl like Jenny Rosen, who'd had classes with him all through high-school, who always seemed to know the answer no matter what the subject, who had a light dusting of freckles around her nose and a quirky half-smile. Who dressed in jeans that she'd tailored herself, in t-shirts she'd modded, stitching multiple shirts together to make tight little half-shirts, elaborate shawls, mock turtelnecks.

Jenny Rosen had seemed to have it all: beauty and brains and, above all, rationality: she didn't like the way that store-bought jeans fit, so she hacked her own. She didn't like the t-shirts that everyone wore, so she changed the shirts to suit her taste. She was funny, she was clever, and he'd been completely, head-over-heels in love with her from sophomore English right through to senior American History.

They'd been friendly through that time, though not really friends. Connor’s friends were into gaming and computers, Jenny's friends were jocks and school-paper kids. But friendly, sure, enough to say hello in the hallway, enough to become lab partners in sophomore physics (she was a careful taker of notes, and her hair-stuff smelled amazing, and their hands brushed against each other a hundred times that semester).

And then, in senior year, he'd asked her out to a movie. Then she'd asked him to a track rally. Then he'd asked her to work with him on an American History project on Chinese railway workers that involved going to Chinatown after school, and there they'd had a giant dim sum meal and then sat in a park and talked for hours, and then they'd stopped talking and started kissing.

And one thing led to another, and the kissing led to more kissing, and then their friends all started to whisper, "Did you hear about Connor and Jenny?" and she met his parents and he met hers. And it had all seemed perfect.

But it wasn't perfect. Anything but.

In the four months, two weeks and three days that they were officially a couple, they had approximately 2,453,212 arguments, each more blazing than the last. Theoretically, he understood everything he needed to about her. She loved sports. She loved to use her mind. She loved humor. She loved silly comedies and slow music without words.

And so he would go away and plan out exactly how to deliver all these things to her, plugging in her loves like variables into an equation, working out elaborate schemes to deliver them to her.

But it never worked. He'd work it out so that they could go to a ball game at AT&T Park and she'd want to go see a concert at Cow Palace instead. He'd take her to see a new wacky comedy and she'd want to go home and work on an overdue assignment. No matter how hard he tried to get her reality and his theory to match up, he always failed.

In his heart of hearts, he knew it wasn't her fault. He knew that he had some deficiency that caused him to live in the imaginary world he sometimes thought of as "theory-land," the country where everything behaved as it was supposed to.

After graduation, through his bachelor's degree in pure math at Berkeley, his Masters in Signal Processing at Caltech, and the first year of a PhD in economics at Stanford, he had occasion to date lots of beautiful women, and every time, he found himself ground to pulp between the gears of real-world and theory-land. He gave up on women and his PhD on a fine day in October, telling the prof who was supposed to be his advisor that he could find someone else to teach his freshman math courses, grade his papers, and answer his email.

He walked off the Stanford campus and into the monied streets of Palo Alto, and he packed up his car and drove to his new job, as chief economist for Coca Cola's games division, and finally, he found a real world that matched the beautiful elegance of theory-land.

Coca Cola ran or franchised anywhere from a dozen to thirty game-worlds at any given time. The number of games went up or down according to the brutal, elegant logic of the economics of fun:

a certain amount of difficulty

plus

a certain amount of your friends

plus

a certain amount of interesting strangers

plus

a certain amount of reward

plus

a certain amount of opportunity

equalled

fun

.

That was the equation that had come to him one day early in his second semester of the PhD grind, a bolt of inspiration like the finger of god reaching down into his brain. The magic was that equals sign, just before the fun, because once you could express fun as a function of other variables, you could establish its relationship to those variables -- if we reduce the difficulty and the number of your friends playing, can we increase the reward and make the fun stay the same?

This line of thought drove him to phone in a sick-call to his advisor and head straight home, where he typed and drew and scribbled and thought and thought and thought, and he phoned in sick the next day, and the next -- and then it was the weekend, and he let his phone run down, shut off his email and IM, and worked, eating when he had to.

By the time he found himself shoving fingerloads of butter into his mouth, having emptied the fridge of all else, he knew he was onto something.

He called them the Prikkel equations, and they described in elegant, pure, abstract math the relationship between all the variables that went into fun, and how fun equalled money, inasmuch as people would pay to play fun games, and would pay more for items that had value in those games.
-


Hopefully that is the relevant section ☺

The box code is in lilmookieesquire's profile, blame him if it's screwed up!
the9thcircle said @ 1:11pm GMT on 13th Mar
as long as the guy didn't actively stop any other people from setting up similar online services, what he did was fine.
Cakkafracle said @ 3:25pm GMT on 13th Mar
this.
bltrocker said @ 7:30pm GMT on 13th Mar
He had some insider trading shit going on, though. He got in on the "friends and family" beta or whatever and got to know the intricacies of the system before any normal person had a logon. He learned the exploits and bugs that would probably make it through to the full release. He did stop other people from having the same service because he knew from the get-go where to buy up all the land and how to push other people out of the market.
lilmookieesquire said @ 9:46pm GMT on 13th Mar
He even said he bought land to PREVENT people from buying there.
the9thcircle said @ 2:45am GMT on 14th Mar [Score:1 Insightful]
Well then, isn't the solution obvious? Virtual worlds need virtual lawyers to enforce laws and regulations. And I'm just the man to do it!
oddzer said @ 3:41pm GMT on 13th Mar
Reasons I don't play MMOs, partial list.
KropperPrime said @ 5:06pm GMT on 13th Mar
Fuck all these capitalist pigs.

Not only they are destroying the real world, but they can't even let the virtual worlds in peace.

It is supposed to be a game you greedy fuck.
feltmage said @ 5:27pm GMT on 13th Mar
I don't see how his actions stopped it from being a game for anyone else (other than his employees, I guess, and even then I tend to make a game out of work...)
arctan said @ 6:42pm GMT on 13th Mar
His mInopoly on in-game stuff basically gave him control of the in-game money supply, which meant everything was too expensive for you to progress through the game by acquiring credits the normal way and you were forced to purchase game money with real money from his Thai friend to compete.

Essentially it was charging more money on top of the subscription fee to get the advertised in game experience. Money that, as someone who didn't help make the game, he wasn't entitled to but got essentially by being a manipulative dick.
lilmookieesquire said @ 9:44pm GMT on 13th Mar
And the game was "destroyed" when they didn't basically have to purchase Jedi status through him.
feltmage said @ 10:10pm GMT on 13th Mar
Except no one was forcing you to get credits from him or even to compete with him. I played SWG, and it was possible to get plenty of credits through just questing and mob hunting. Neither of which this guy could stop. He simply made his money off of people who wanted to take shortcuts, ie buy equipment instead of grinding it out or buying credits with RL money instead of earning them in game. If I played on one of his servers I probably would have never noticed what he did or that he existed at all.
lilmookieesquire said @ 11:20pm GMT on 13th Mar
He destroyed the economic system (and he said no one knew the extent of his empire) so the programmers had to change the game mechanics of the game, essentially giving away things that the author claims made the game fun.

He essentially took over an aspect of the game, and by doing so denied others a shot at it. In his own words, he destroyed the game. You may disagree with him, but I think cornering the market seemed to destroy a lot of the fun and competition of the game. You're feel free to disagree.
feltmage said @ 11:52pm GMT on 13th Mar
I assume you've never played the game or you would know how blown up and exaggerated his claims are.
lilmookieesquire said @ 3:27am GMT on 14th Mar
Correct.
Dioxin said @ 11:58pm GMT on 13th Mar [Score:2]
Actually no, becoming a jedi was ridiculously difficult on any server before NGE. It was a pants on head retarded design that forced players to grind for an inordinate amount of time for the mere chance to become jedi. The degree in which people with money to spare but not the mental fortitude to grind through hours of a pointless activity helped "destroy" the game by showing the devs just how much people wanted to become jedi, but it was the devs who actually destroyed the game when they alienated the established fanbase by giving everyone instant jedi status without any meaningful acknowledgement of the people who did accomplish their goal the insanely time intensive, old fashioned way.
Zaldron said @ 6:51pm GMT on 13th Mar [Score:1 Underrated]
This is why I stick primarily to single player games.
Barnabas_Truman said @ 1:50am GMT on 14th Mar
I generally find the single player campaigns of most games more fun than the multiplayer aspect anyway.
GordonGuano said @ 4:12am GMT on 14th Mar [Score:1]
So who do you get to call you a nigger faggot?
theolypse said @ 5:31am GMT on 14th Mar [Score:1 Informative]
Whom.
GordonGuano said @ 5:59am GMT on 14th Mar
As much as offenses against the common apostrophe irk me, when to use "whom" is one I can never keep straight. I guess I should have avoided it altogethet and said, "If you never play with others online, who do you get to call you a nigger faggot?". I bet you never have to deal with this in Esperanto.
Barnabas_Truman said @ 6:32am GMT on 14th Mar
No, that'd still be "whom."

"Who" is a subject, like "I," "he," "she," and "they."

"Whom" is an object, like "me," "him," "her," and "them."
stereotype said @ 6:40am GMT on 14th Mar
ya'll are all acting like a buncha fruity faggots. why don't you go gay marry your boyfriend obama?
bruceski said @ 8:21am GMT on 14th Mar
"y'all are all" is redundant.
b said @ 3:26pm GMT on 14th Mar
Bend over, I'll show you redundant.
Barnabas_Truman said @ 7:36pm GMT on 14th Mar
Not exactly. "Y'all" may originally have been a contraction of "you-all," but in certain dialects at least it has effectively become a second person plural pronoun, comparable to "ye" in middle English or "vosotros/ustedes" in Spanish.
theolypse said @ 7:52am GMT on 14th Mar [Score:1 Informative]
The punchline was overlooking the offensiveness to critique a miniscule usage error on questionably relevant grounds, actually. That was trolling, and the ratio between my words used and yours makes it a clear win for me.
swiggy said @ 7:36am GMT on 14th Mar [Score:-1]
eIfish said @ 3:30pm GMT on 14th Mar
See also Mass Effect 3 forcing you to play multiplayer (for a $10 one-off fee if you bought it second-hand!) if you want to see the Good End
bruceski said @ 9:15pm GMT on 14th Mar
You don't get some magical rainbows and unicorns ending if you've played multiplayer, they're all bleak and reporting of this is blown out of proportion by people's denial. Everyone freaks out over the 4K requirement but the only thing that changes there is about ten seconds of cutscene from ONE of the ending choices. Otherwise everything's the same as if you had 2800 war assets, which is quite achievable even with the 50% multiplier.
mrcucumber said @ 10:45pm GMT on 13th Mar
Speaking of dead. Does anybody celebrate dead relatives' birthdays? What about anniversary of relatives' deaths?
lilmookieesquire said @ 11:15pm GMT on 13th Mar
My mom kind of does. It's always mentioned, but I'm not sure about "celebrate".
bruceski said @ 1:15am GMT on 14th Mar
I know it's a Jewish tradition to observe the anniversary of the loss of direct family members. Yahrzeit.
gunthar said @ 4:47am GMT on 14th Mar [Score:1 Good]

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