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Tuesday, 13 March 2012
quote [ I was dumbstruck. I didn’t respond and started taking notes. I took a lot of notes — entire composition books sat next to my monitor. In hindsight, 90% of what I noted was useless, but that 10% — that was worth something. ]
Good read. This is why I prefer the games at zombo.com. Extended has a video on the latest viral math.
What's up with the whole 998,001 thing? This guy explains the math (or I beleive he would say maths)
[games] [by bltrocker@5:03amGMT] [+10 Interesting] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daro6K6mym8&feature=player_embedded Probably been posted at some point, but good cosplay (ever so slightly NSFW) http://unrealitymag.com/index.php/2011/06/30/a-gallery-of-the-most-accurate-female-video-game-costumes/ Need that M4A as an MP3 and don't want to mess with a transcoder application? This site is pretty cool, is free, and I haven't run into any catches yet. http://www.online-convert.com/ |
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lilmookieesquire
said @ 5:19am GMT on 13th Mar
[Score:5 Underrated]
It's funny. He's not actually playing the game. He calls the game "work". He's also "what's wrong with America". He has the nerve to game the system... exploiting everything for his profit... Fuck. He even hired people to play the fucking game. Then complain when the nature of the rules change to stop him. Fuck this guy. |
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tickaz
said @ 6:28am GMT on 13th Mar
[Score:3]
I think the point of the article is that in hindsight, he realised that is a fair judgement of him. He never actually asks for redemption or remorse, but the tone of the article (to me) seemed to suggest that he was somewhat apologetic for his actions. But yeah, he was what was wrong with the game; and in a more general sense people like him are what's wrong with the world. Unfortunately for the real world there isn't a dev team working in the interests of the common folk who can just change the rules when someone becomes too powerful. |
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tickaz
said @ 6:36am GMT on 13th Mar
woops, bit of a typo in there. I meant "he feels remorse"... I trust you guys can figure out what I meant. |
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blacksun
said @ 6:46am GMT on 13th Mar
With the amounts that mmos earn, (well, WoW at least) there should be devs that actually play the game as high level "game characters" of sorts. These characters could be allies or foes with large amount of in game power. In this way, they can keep tabs on what's happening in game, and put a check on abuse of the system. Not in a way that changes the rules for everyone, but in a way that works within the rules to challenge those who abuse the system. This, or something similar may be the only way to save a genre that's become nothing more than mashing buttons while watching a rather boring movie. Effecting massive change within an MMO world, to the point of even destroying or conquering the entire world is the future. |
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lilmookieesquire
said @ 6:57am GMT on 13th Mar
Yes. But maybe in an observational role, otherwise it might lend itself to too much in-game politics, no? |
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DarkShadowRavenDragonGrrl69
said @ 9:34am GMT on 13th Mar
Yeah, and they could use some snazzy title like "Video Champion" or something. |
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Barnabas_Truman
said @ 7:03am GMT on 13th Mar
[Score:2 Insightful]
And yet somehow NetHack is still fun. |
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theolypse
said @ 12:39pm GMT on 13th Mar
[Score:1 Insightful]
NetHack has never been fun. Convert to DCSS and be redeemed. |
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DarkShadowRavenDragonGrrl69
said @ 8:49pm GMT on 13th Mar
I enjoyed the bits I played of Elona. I think the graphics and JRPG flavor helped. Still way too challenging for me though. |
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psychotim
said @ 9:15pm GMT on 13th Mar
I decided to play DCSS after I got my first Nethack ascend. It's... been a few years. |
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Barnabas_Truman
said @ 1:30am GMT on 14th Mar
Eh. I tried DCSS but never really got into it. Might give it another go someday. NetHack, on the other hand, I've ascended three times and still find it fun and challenging. |
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clumsy_juggler
said @ 12:39pm GMT on 13th Mar
I play a smaller MMO (Vendetta Online) which is run by 4 developers who will often show up in game. They also take and implement player suggestions quite often. It all seems to work quite well for preventing exploits of this sort. |
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foobar
said @ 6:39pm GMT on 13th Mar
[Score:5 Funny]
Nerf Wall Street. |
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Mitt Romney
said @ 6:57am GMT on 13th Mar
Whoa, my friend, my friend. This man worked hard for his success and created good jobs for several dirty, unbaptized foreigners. What do you have against success? |
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lilmookieesquire
said @ 7:34am GMT on 13th Mar
[Score:1 Informative]
My ex was a corporation. |
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Joe_Luma
said @ 9:44am GMT on 13th Mar
Hey, a marriage is a team effort! |
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Dioxin
said @ 8:06am GMT on 13th Mar
Fuck this guy, or fuck the guys who created the environment that let this guy thrive? |
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Didel
said @ 7:09pm GMT on 13th Mar
[Score:1 Insightful]
One of the things I didn't quite grasp was that he says he made a low six figures, and was making more than he could at his normal job. But he was also playing the game 18 hours a day at times, spent a year planning on what he was going to do before he ever had a chance to make money, and even had his wife help out. So take that low six figures, add in a year of unpaid labor, paying a part time employee, and when you actually do the hourly conversion, I have a feeling he wasn't making as much as he would have at a normal job, it's just he worked twice as many hours and had assistance. So yeah, it's like "I made all this cash! But I totally failed to consider the incredible amount of time it took me to accumulate it!" If he enjoyed doing it, more power to him, I just think he overestimated the amount of money he actually made when considering things like opportunity cost. |
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mrcucumber
said @ 9:57pm GMT on 13th Mar
But what he gained was time. He now has a house, and it took him less time to accumulate those earnings, leaving him with another year to generate income over the course of his life. Whereas if he worked for someone else, he might take twice as long to earn the same, without the nice house and nifty car. |
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Dioxin
said @ 11:27pm GMT on 13th Mar
He was also working in something he enjoyed. Even before he made money from the game he was already a massive fan. That's what got him to spend so much time on the game in the first place. Wouldn't you prefer to get paid six figures to indulge in your personal obsession rather than earn half of that working 9-5 on a project you wouldn't give two shits about? |
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downstairsc
said @ 12:48am GMT on 14th Mar
Turns out... not so much: http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/12/14/the-overjustification-effect/ |
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aliron
said @ 2:47am GMT on 14th Mar
This is probably the only article on that site I did not understand. So you're saying he's overjustifying his past actions with false hindsight? |
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theolypse
said @ 5:28am GMT on 14th Mar
Let me try. The first bit that might run counter to your framework is this: you don't always know your motivations, even when you think you do. The prefrontal cortex is a bolt-on, evolutionarily, to an already quite efficient decision-making mechanism. Research has shown people acting moments before they report having decided to act. Extrapolate out to a larger scale, and you have cognitive dissonance being usually resolved in favor of the actions, not the beliefs, which is also a well-supported trend. We change our minds about why we're doing what we're doing all the time, far more often than we change what we're doing. When you are paid highly for a task, the research referenced by that article found, you tend to attribute doing the task to the payment. When you are paid trivially, you tend to attribute to a desire to do the task. A similar effect is shown in the You Like Whom You Help tendency that was posted about here a year or two ago, to broad misunderstanding. All cf., "I wouldn't want to make a job of [my hobby]." |
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theolypse
said @ 5:21am GMT on 14th Mar
[Score:1 Insightful]
And here we have a lesson for you about Opportunity and the horrid random uncaring of the universe. See, I know exactly what sort of job could motivate me to put in that kind of effort, but it's not one I can just up and begin, as he did. No, first I have to put in eight years of antipaid labor. Then I get to pull routine 12-hour days. And only after a decade of making those six figures will I be out of debt for it. The flaw of runaway Capitalism and the diffuse paradigm it supports is to assume that people "deserve" their "earnings", or that there is even a direct correlation between effort and result. |
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atter_cob
said @ 7:24am GMT on 15th Mar
I don't think you got the point of the article. |
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sacrelicious
said @ 11:14am GMT on 15th Mar
-or- he exploited a flaw in the game. his exploitation of that flaw exposed the flaw, which lead to attempts to fix that flaw in that game, and in future games of a similar type. without someone like him the flaw would become apparent much more slowly, given more time to become entrenched in that and a myriad of similar games without enough people noticing it or taking it seriously, possibly until it simply came to be an accepted part of the gaming environment. thus his extreme actions improved gaming for the average gamer. |
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Cakkafracle
said @ 5:36am GMT on 13th Mar
what a ga-douche |
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Asscheeks Akimbo
said @ 5:55am GMT on 13th Mar
Regardless of your feelings about his actions, it is a fascinating look into the mind of an insanely driven person. |
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tickaz
said @ 6:19am GMT on 13th Mar
I gotta hand it to him, he managed to buy a house and a car off the earnings he made from the game. He was the 1%. |
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-_-
said @ 6:25am GMT on 13th Mar
I had a buddy that was making 3K$/month playing SWG back when he had a bad habit of staying awake for days on end ... SWG was how he supported himself and his habit. Crazy fucking world. |
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tickaz
said @ 6:33am GMT on 13th Mar
At least he wasn't committing crimes to fuel his habit... well I hope he wasn't anyway. |
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tickaz
said @ 6:31am GMT on 13th Mar
That video about 1/998001 was actually quite interesting, I ended up watching a few of his clips. The first one was the best though. |
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sherlock
said @ 7:00am GMT on 13th Mar
[Score:2 Funny]
You forgot the photo of the author: |
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GordonGuano
said @ 7:50am GMT on 13th Mar
It does gall a bit that he talks about his wife supporting his 18-hour-a-day gaming schedule while I'm working on my third year of celibacy. |
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bruceski
said @ 8:32am GMT on 13th Mar
She was against it until he made a lot of money. |
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GordonGuano
said @ 9:20am GMT on 13th Mar
Doesn't really speak well of either of them, does it? Maybe solitude isn't so bad after all. I can sit on my mountaintop and ponder the koan: what is the sound of one hand fapping? |
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Dioxin
said @ 9:35am GMT on 13th Mar
How did that not really speak well of either of them? She was against him doing what looked to be a crazy assed waste of time and money (quitting work to run 8 copies of the game in parallel), but his crazy assed apparent waste of time and money actually panned out, so she stopped hating it. |
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GordonGuano
said @ 9:49am GMT on 13th Mar
It makes her seem a bit mercenary (I'm not saying she's a gold digger but...) and by the author's own admission he ruined the economies of several servers. FWIW, for six figures I could probably put up with behavior way more questionable than pushing pixels around in a silly game. |
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Dioxin
said @ 10:02am GMT on 13th Mar
How does that make her, a non SWG obsessed person, seem mercenary? If your SO told you there was money to be made in something crazy sounding, but they were right because they had the facts when you didn't, would changing your mind to support their business then make you mercenary? And where did he mention he ruined the economies of several servers? All I see is evidence he ruined the economies for gold sellers before partnering up with one. He "destroyed" SWG by showing the devs just how much some people wanted to get the top rewards for no work. The devs then miscalculated by giving those people exactly what they wanted, only to ruin the sense of accomplishment for everyone who did work hard for their end game powers. |
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GordonGuano
said @ 10:40am GMT on 13th Mar
When the pursuit of that money is likely wrecking the SO's health but it stops being a concern once the ducats start piling up, yeah, I'd call it mercenary. But as I said, I'd probably put up with even worse for that kind of money. For all I know, she's less mercenary than I am. I'm not holding either of us up as paragons of ethics, you'll note. And I would call monopolizing game real estate and then jacking prices up to increase demand for the game currency you sell to be ruining the game and its economy. If you don't then we're playing for different reasons, which is fine. Of course, this is all distraction from my original, main point, which is that this guy was married while I, who have never poopsocked, haven't even had a date in over two years. TANJ. |
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Dioxin
said @ 11:03am GMT on 13th Mar
Where did it mention she was getting worried over his physical health, rather than getting worried over him devoting all his time to a mental fixation that actually panned out? And all his monopolized real estate could offer was convenience. Players didn't have to trade him their goods at a premium, but they did. "People used my vendors because they were closer, and for no other reason." Unlike a real world monopoly, if people didn't want to pay his prices they could take their in game money elsewhere quite easily. |
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GordonGuano
said @ 11:39am GMT on 13th Mar
Perhaps people will be around long enough to adapt and turn into bronzed bodybuilders by eating Hot Pockets, never seeing the sun, and spending 18+ hours a day on their asses staring at multiple screens. Until then, that's how I'm betting. I'm glad for him that his obsession paid off, but for lots of people who similarly neglect family, household maintenance, hygiene and health, it doesn't. But as I said, we're likely playing for different reasons. If I were this guy, I'd have been using all my clout to make Gungans playable* and ricockulously overpowered. *I never played SWG, but I'm assuming they weren't. |
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Dioxin
said @ 11:42pm GMT on 13th Mar
It doesn't say he only ate hot pockets. Probably not considering he also had someone else in the house who he never mentioned also lived that way. It doesn't say he never saw the sun. He probably didn't in the first few weeks but there's not indication he turned into a long time shut in. Even if he did, there's no indication his new daily habits differed in any way from how he ran his previous business. It doesn't say he always spent 18 hours a day on the job for the whole two years, again he only mentions that his first few weeks were a blur but later he ended up employing a number of people full time to assist him. Maybe she was mercenary, maybe not, but the article itself gives no indication of the reason for her initial worry beyond the fact that for the first few weeks he was spending all his time on something that didn't pay him anything in return, and didn't sound like it ever could. |
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b
said @ 2:32pm GMT on 13th Mar
poopsocked? |
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GordonGuano
said @ 2:39pm GMT on 13th Mar
It's when, rather than stop playing an MMO to tend to your body's needs, you defecate into a sock so as not to break the group dynamic. When you live on Hot Pockets and Mountain Dew, it's not likely to occur more than once or twice a week. |
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b
said @ 5:40pm GMT on 13th Mar
I did have to google that. Initially I thought it was a euphemism for anal sex. Like, the rectum is a sock for your dick. Hence, poop sock. You learn something new every day. |
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swiggy
said @ 4:27am GMT on 14th Mar
The rectum thing is pink sock. DON'T google that one. |
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theolypse
said @ 5:30am GMT on 14th Mar
Oh, please. Like you never read through your school nurse's skin diseases reference. |
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b
said @ 6:37am GMT on 14th Mar
Come on, there's nothing wrong with a little distended rectum. |
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Supreme_Coconut
said @ 3:10pm GMT on 13th Mar
[Score:1 Underrated]
You need to get out more. |
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theolypse
said @ 5:29am GMT on 14th Mar
I should think he wants to get in more. |
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b
said @ 6:37am GMT on 14th Mar
Less poopsocking. |
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swiggy
said @ 7:35am GMT on 14th Mar
You never know...possibly more. |
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chold_numa
said @ 7:56am GMT on 13th Mar
I think it makes a good case for property taxes and shows what an (effective) monopoly can do to destroy an economy (albeit a somewhat limited one). Also, once there was a significant paradigm shift (people becoming Jedi via the quest chain), the his market was effectively gone. In a real world scenario the monopoly would have lobbied the government for a subsidy. Also, I don't think this guy would have paid too much tax on his real cash earnings. |
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mrcucumber
said @ 4:54pm GMT on 13th Mar
I'm no expert, but if his deposits went over 10K, and interest showing on his bank statement reflect his earnings, wouldn't that raise flags? |
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chold_numa
said @ 9:28pm GMT on 13th Mar
It sounds like his broker was located overseas as were his employees. Given the nature of the business, he could easily move the cash across in small amounts when required. Use an overseas credit card for day-to-day expenses. If he was buying the house, the loan could have been against his wife's income into which he paid against his overseas account. Or use a wire transfer service in small amounts. Lots of ways he could get around tax. Much like a multinational company. On the other hand, he could be legit, but he doesn't sound like he's been overly gifted in the ethics department. |
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kichijoii
said @ 8:00am GMT on 13th Mar
[Score:2]
Goldman Sachs needs to give this guy a call. His talents for exploitation are clearly being wasted here. |
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swiggy
said @ 8:39am GMT on 13th Mar
I was going to hidey-box a relevant section of Cory Doctrow's for the win, But I can't find the relevant code, so just CTRL+F for "Prikkel equations." |
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swiggy
said @ 9:04am GMT on 13th Mar
I just realized I used "relevant" twice there. |
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the9thcircle
said @ 1:10pm GMT on 13th Mar
i hate it when i do that. |
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happiest_sadist
said @ 12:53am GMT on 14th Mar
Hopefully that is the relevant section ☺ The box code is in lilmookieesquire's profile, blame him if it's screwed up! |
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the9thcircle
said @ 1:11pm GMT on 13th Mar
as long as the guy didn't actively stop any other people from setting up similar online services, what he did was fine. |
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Cakkafracle
said @ 3:25pm GMT on 13th Mar
this. |
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bltrocker
said @ 7:30pm GMT on 13th Mar
He had some insider trading shit going on, though. He got in on the "friends and family" beta or whatever and got to know the intricacies of the system before any normal person had a logon. He learned the exploits and bugs that would probably make it through to the full release. He did stop other people from having the same service because he knew from the get-go where to buy up all the land and how to push other people out of the market. |
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lilmookieesquire
said @ 9:46pm GMT on 13th Mar
He even said he bought land to PREVENT people from buying there. |
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the9thcircle
said @ 2:45am GMT on 14th Mar
[Score:1 Insightful]
Well then, isn't the solution obvious? Virtual worlds need virtual lawyers to enforce laws and regulations. And I'm just the man to do it! |
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oddzer
said @ 3:41pm GMT on 13th Mar
Reasons I don't play MMOs, partial list. |
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KropperPrime
said @ 5:06pm GMT on 13th Mar
Fuck all these capitalist pigs. Not only they are destroying the real world, but they can't even let the virtual worlds in peace. It is supposed to be a game you greedy fuck. |
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feltmage
said @ 5:27pm GMT on 13th Mar
I don't see how his actions stopped it from being a game for anyone else (other than his employees, I guess, and even then I tend to make a game out of work...) |
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arctan
said @ 6:42pm GMT on 13th Mar
His mInopoly on in-game stuff basically gave him control of the in-game money supply, which meant everything was too expensive for you to progress through the game by acquiring credits the normal way and you were forced to purchase game money with real money from his Thai friend to compete. Essentially it was charging more money on top of the subscription fee to get the advertised in game experience. Money that, as someone who didn't help make the game, he wasn't entitled to but got essentially by being a manipulative dick. |
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lilmookieesquire
said @ 9:44pm GMT on 13th Mar
And the game was "destroyed" when they didn't basically have to purchase Jedi status through him. |
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feltmage
said @ 10:10pm GMT on 13th Mar
Except no one was forcing you to get credits from him or even to compete with him. I played SWG, and it was possible to get plenty of credits through just questing and mob hunting. Neither of which this guy could stop. He simply made his money off of people who wanted to take shortcuts, ie buy equipment instead of grinding it out or buying credits with RL money instead of earning them in game. If I played on one of his servers I probably would have never noticed what he did or that he existed at all. |
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lilmookieesquire
said @ 11:20pm GMT on 13th Mar
He destroyed the economic system (and he said no one knew the extent of his empire) so the programmers had to change the game mechanics of the game, essentially giving away things that the author claims made the game fun. He essentially took over an aspect of the game, and by doing so denied others a shot at it. In his own words, he destroyed the game. You may disagree with him, but I think cornering the market seemed to destroy a lot of the fun and competition of the game. You're feel free to disagree. |
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feltmage
said @ 11:52pm GMT on 13th Mar
I assume you've never played the game or you would know how blown up and exaggerated his claims are. |
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lilmookieesquire
said @ 3:27am GMT on 14th Mar
Correct. |
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Dioxin
said @ 11:58pm GMT on 13th Mar
[Score:2]
Actually no, becoming a jedi was ridiculously difficult on any server before NGE. It was a pants on head retarded design that forced players to grind for an inordinate amount of time for the mere chance to become jedi. The degree in which people with money to spare but not the mental fortitude to grind through hours of a pointless activity helped "destroy" the game by showing the devs just how much people wanted to become jedi, but it was the devs who actually destroyed the game when they alienated the established fanbase by giving everyone instant jedi status without any meaningful acknowledgement of the people who did accomplish their goal the insanely time intensive, old fashioned way. |
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Zaldron
said @ 6:51pm GMT on 13th Mar
[Score:1 Underrated]
This is why I stick primarily to single player games. |
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Barnabas_Truman
said @ 1:50am GMT on 14th Mar
I generally find the single player campaigns of most games more fun than the multiplayer aspect anyway. |
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GordonGuano
said @ 4:12am GMT on 14th Mar
[Score:1]
So who do you get to call you a nigger faggot? |
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theolypse
said @ 5:31am GMT on 14th Mar
[Score:1 Informative]
Whom. |
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GordonGuano
said @ 5:59am GMT on 14th Mar
As much as offenses against the common apostrophe irk me, when to use "whom" is one I can never keep straight. I guess I should have avoided it altogethet and said, "If you never play with others online, who do you get to call you a nigger faggot?". I bet you never have to deal with this in Esperanto. |
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Barnabas_Truman
said @ 6:32am GMT on 14th Mar
No, that'd still be "whom." "Who" is a subject, like "I," "he," "she," and "they." "Whom" is an object, like "me," "him," "her," and "them." |
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stereotype
said @ 6:40am GMT on 14th Mar
ya'll are all acting like a buncha fruity faggots. why don't you go gay marry your boyfriend obama? |
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bruceski
said @ 8:21am GMT on 14th Mar
"y'all are all" is redundant. |
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b
said @ 3:26pm GMT on 14th Mar
Bend over, I'll show you redundant. |
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Barnabas_Truman
said @ 7:36pm GMT on 14th Mar
Not exactly. "Y'all" may originally have been a contraction of "you-all," but in certain dialects at least it has effectively become a second person plural pronoun, comparable to "ye" in middle English or "vosotros/ustedes" in Spanish. |
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theolypse
said @ 7:52am GMT on 14th Mar
[Score:1 Informative]
The punchline was overlooking the offensiveness to critique a miniscule usage error on questionably relevant grounds, actually. That was trolling, and the ratio between my words used and yours makes it a clear win for me. |
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swiggy
said @ 7:36am GMT on 14th Mar
[Score:-1]
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eIfish
said @ 3:30pm GMT on 14th Mar
See also Mass Effect 3 forcing you to play multiplayer (for a $10 one-off fee if you bought it second-hand!) if you want to see the Good End |
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bruceski
said @ 9:15pm GMT on 14th Mar
You don't get some magical rainbows and unicorns ending if you've played multiplayer, they're all bleak and reporting of this is blown out of proportion by people's denial. Everyone freaks out over the 4K requirement but the only thing that changes there is about ten seconds of cutscene from ONE of the ending choices. Otherwise everything's the same as if you had 2800 war assets, which is quite achievable even with the 50% multiplier. |
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mrcucumber
said @ 10:45pm GMT on 13th Mar
Speaking of dead. Does anybody celebrate dead relatives' birthdays? What about anniversary of relatives' deaths? |
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lilmookieesquire
said @ 11:15pm GMT on 13th Mar
My mom kind of does. It's always mentioned, but I'm not sure about "celebrate". |
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bruceski
said @ 1:15am GMT on 14th Mar
I know it's a Jewish tradition to observe the anniversary of the loss of direct family members. Yahrzeit. |
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gunthar
said @ 4:47am GMT on 14th Mar
[Score:1 Good]
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