Sensible Erection | Verizon Math: $0.002 = 0.002 cents

Friday, 8 December 2006

quote [ no quote -- just streaming audio ]

A guy has a problem with his Verizon Bill. He was quoted .002 cents per KB. He was chareged $.002. Hilarity ensues when he tries to educate Verizon customer support as to the subtle difference therein.

[humour] [by yasha@10:54pmGMT] [+10 Funny]

Comments

baulsaak said @ 11:16pm GMT on 8th Dec
Is that thumb the math for this problem? you should blow it up and add it to the extended. This is so funny. I can't believe how thick these reps at the phone company are.

yasha said @ 11:32pm GMT on 8th Dec [Score:5 Funny]
thumb = google images search for "math."

this call reminds me of a psychology class i took once. it was taught by a smokin hot grad student with legs taht you dreamed all class about having wrapped around you moving grasshopper like as you made hot steamy love. but i digress.

it was a psychology class and for some reason, after showing after showing a noam chomsky video on challenging authority, she decided to show us how people get logic wrong.

her specific instance? "everyone realizes that if all a are b and all b are c then all a must also be c. but many people don't realize the reverse is also true. if no a are b and no b are c then no a are c."

i argued with her for about five minutes and she answered back with "look this is very simple. no dogs are ice cream cones. no ice cream cones are walruses. therefore no dogs are walruses."

so i grabbed the chalk from her hand and tried to show her with a venn diagram why she was wrong.

she got all high and might about me disrespecting her authority and chastised me for talking her chalk, but said she'd ask a friend to sort her out.

she came back next class and told me she'd asked her friend, also a grad student. he'd apparently told her it was a difference of opinion, and that's just the way these things sometimes go.

i went ballistic. i was 18 and really believed in universities. so there was no possible difference of opinion -- there was merely right and wrong. and that if she did not prove that she understood the difference of such a basic logical tennat, and that if she did not correct herself in front of the class, i would tell the director of her department that she was an idiot and quite unfit to teach as she was essentially holding that 1 + 1 = 11.

anyway -- that terrified her. she did her homework. apologized in front of the class. i didn't turn in any more assignments and still got an a+.

still, i know realize i was acting like a total n00b geek. i shoulda figured out a way to get those delicious legs around my naked, sweaty back.

then again, back then, i woulda finished in like .002 seconds.

sherlock said @ 11:48pm GMT on 8th Dec
I long for the day when philosophers were also mathematicians.

Baxter_UK said @ 4:03am GMT on 9th Dec [Score:1 Insightful]
She wasn't a philosopher, she was a psychologist.

fuzzo said @ 7:12am GMT on 9th Dec
they had better be good at math since it follows rules of logic and so must philosophy.

arrowhen said @ 9:55am GMT on 9th Dec
I'm good at logic but I suck at math.

Narrenschiff said @ 11:26am GMT on 9th Dec
Yarr. Math is boring. I also hate puzzles.

oranges said @ 2:14pm GMT on 9th Dec
If you're good at logic then you'd probably do well with real analysis or number theory. Those are both part of math. It makes me sad when people think all math is just raw calculation. There are proofs and that's a whole new and delicious kind of animal.

Naruki said @ 3:12pm GMT on 9th Dec
Days. To long for the day means some time in the future, but you used "were", making it a past issue. To long for the days would be the ones in the past, which agrees with the verb.

Narrenschiff said @ 7:00pm GMT on 9th Dec
I'd prefer my philosophers to be scientists.

Baxter_UK said @ 3:31am GMT on 10th Dec
In which case they would be bad philosophers indeed.

f00m@nB@r said @ 12:22am GMT on 9th Dec
'tenet', like the cia dude.

yasha said @ 12:35am GMT on 9th Dec
dude. it's 1am. i've been reading patents all night. gimme a break. its the internets.

unga-bunga said @ 6:15am GMT on 9th Dec [Score:1 Insightful]
The internet is that it is a tool to uplift humanity, not degrade it (unless you're making fun of someone). Therefore using incorrect spelling is a big no-no. Save the poor spelling for your text messaging. And save the excuses for yo' mama.
*blows kisses*

Khafra said @ 12:02pm GMT on 9th Dec
Ooh, a patent clerk! When is the paper on your new unified field theory gonna be published?

Navier-Strokes said @ 1:32am GMT on 9th Dec [Score:1 Insightful]
.002 years? That's some stamina there.

arrowhen said @ 7:41am GMT on 9th Dec
17.52 hours.

pserafinhk said @ 2:08am GMT on 9th Dec

max_damage78 said @ 7:09am GMT on 9th Dec
Suppose that page Pj has lj links. If one of those links is to page Pi, then Pj will pass on 1/lj of its importance to Pi. The importance ranking of Pi is then the sum of all the contributions made by pages linking to it.

Barnabas_Truman said @ 2:05pm GMT on 9th Dec [Score:1 Good]
That's ridiculous. Easy counterexample: No dogs are ice cream cones. No ice cream cones are dogs. Does this imply that no dogs are dogs? Of course not. Ridiculous.

superargo said @ 11:26pm GMT on 8th Dec
Why can't anyone recognize acting anymore?

b said @ 11:33pm GMT on 8th Dec
you mean that the verizon guy is acting dumb? i agree.

yasha said @ 11:33pm GMT on 8th Dec
it's like the 'buddah call' post a couple days ago.

who cares if it's true? it's just fucking funny.

b said @ 11:31pm GMT on 8th Dec
how long does this go on for? an hour and 43 minutes? does this guy really take almost 2 hours attempting to convince the verizon dude that he's an idiot? i suck at math and the difference is pretty goddam obvious.

yasha said @ 11:32pm GMT on 8th Dec
no, it ends about 1/5 the way through.

Jallandhara said @ 12:34am GMT on 9th Dec
I was wondering why it was still so quiet about ten seconds after the call ended. Wtf is up with that?

baulsaak said @ 11:32pm GMT on 8th Dec [Score:1 Informative]
I think this is the link to his blog:

link

baulsaak said @ 12:10am GMT on 9th Dec [Score:1 WTF]
An email he received AFTER speaking with the last manager Andrea:

Dear George Vaccaro,

Hi George. My name is Nikki and I understand your frustration regarding the data charges on your bill. I am happy to assist you today.

I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience and confusion this has caused. Per the remarks in the account, I have found that the customer service representative provided the correct pricing information. However; due to the miscommunication, I am willing to credit half of the data charges which would be $-36.00. Please reply to this email if you would like to accept this offer.

It has been a pleasure assisting you today, and we appreciate your business. Should you have additional questions or concerns, please reply to this e-mail.

Sincerely,

Nikki
Verizon Wireless
Customer Service

"We never stop working for you!"

Doesn't seem like anybody's gonna help this guy out properly at Verizon.

sacrelicious said @ 12:24am GMT on 9th Dec [Score:1 Funny]
small claims court FTW!

serenity said @ 7:50pm GMT on 9th Dec
I had an argument with T-mobile once. I added T-mobile to T-mobile unlimited minutes during the middle of the month and was quoted the option would take effect immediately (not starting the next month). My bill comes with huge overuse charges. I called and even got the manager to admit the mistake was made on behalf of T-mobile. So what was the remedy? They agreed to pay *half* of the $95 overcharge.

baulsaak said @ 2:49am GMT on 9th Dec
Comment found on George's blog:

Verizon: Your position seems to be that George Vaccaro misunderstood the rate. No, he didn't. Your reps misquoted it and persist in doing so. It's important that you correct the quote your reps are giving by phone immediately. Every time you misquote the rate, you're laying another brick in the foundation of a class action lawsuit by your subscribers. "Point zero zero two cents" is not how you say $0.002. You can say (as George repeatedly does) "Point zero zero two dollars" but you probably want to avoid that word "dollars" because it sounds like a lot, so you might go with "Point two cents per kb" or "a fifth of a cent per kb" or "a penny for each 5kb billed in one kb units". Any of those, but not "Point zero zero two cents" -- that's inaccurate at best, misleading at worst.

liddlemonkey said @ 6:30am GMT on 9th Dec
I thought Class Action lawsuits had been outlawed under some of the Republican's new corporate friendly/ fuck the poor legislation?

LeavemeAlone said @ 10:23am GMT on 9th Dec
Then Small Court Claims them to death. They don't like a 500,000 court proceeding? Then make it 500,000 claims which will swamp half of the courthouses in America and will likely cause summary judgment in most of them since Verizon isn't going to send out lawyers to deal with all of them.

sacrelicious said @ 12:11pm GMT on 9th Dec
not saying they didn't, but it seems to me it would be shortsighted and ultimately tougher for the corporations since class action settlements are a bargain when contrasted with individual settlements.

Jallandhara said @ 11:45pm GMT on 8th Dec
Manager: And it will come out to .002

Him: Yes, and what unit should it be, dollars or cents?

Manager: Well, it's per kilobyte

.........

*slams head down on keyboard*

Jallandhara said @ 11:46pm GMT on 8th Dec
*uses close tag*

b said @ 11:48pm GMT on 8th Dec
well, now that i've heard all 27 minutes, all i can say is: wow. sheer ignorance.

Ariz said @ 11:50pm GMT on 8th Dec [Score:-1 WTF]
What this guy doesn't understand is that they are not charging .002 of a penny, but quoting .002 of a dollar witch is .002 cents. He thinks that they quoted him .002 of one cent witch is incorrect.

baulsaak said @ 11:52pm GMT on 8th Dec
No. They quoted him .002 cents and even wrote it in their computer. what they wanted to quote .002 dollars.

Ariz said @ 12:10am GMT on 9th Dec
So you guys are saying that .002 of one cent witch is .00002 of a dollar is the same as .002 cents witch is the breakdown of the prerequisites that make a dollar? What they are trying to say is .002 cents is the SAME as .002 dollars. you have to realize the difference between .002 cent and .002 cents (note the pluralization) is a very distinct difference in American currency.

baulsaak said @ 12:14am GMT on 9th Dec [Score:2]
Here... let me help you out:

http://www22.verizon.com/jobs/

b said @ 12:46am GMT on 9th Dec
they're really lookin for hot ladies, eh?

baulsaak said @ 12:27am GMT on 9th Dec
Oh, and it's "which" not

f00m@nB@r said @ 12:28am GMT on 9th Dec
the diff is in the ambiguity when .34¢ is spoken. the pluralization has NOTHING to do with it.

i bought two pair for x'mas.

freedude said @ 4:59am GMT on 9th Dec
The pluralization has nothing to do with it mathematically, but everything to do with it grammatically. Saying .002 cents is like saying 2/1000ths of a cents or 2/1000ths cents. Anything less than or equal to 1 unit of anything is singular, anything more is plural.

revchoppy said @ 9:49am GMT on 9th Dec
34/100ths of a cent? You need to get rid of the decimal if you meant 34cents or put in the dollar, instead: $.34

b said @ 12:40am GMT on 9th Dec
foom is right. the pluralization has nothing to do with it.

you can say:

point zero zero two cents

or

point zero zero two of one cent

they are the same. it only makes a difference if you are applying it to 1 kilobyte or 38ooo kilobytes. the pluralization doesn't change the value. are you even from america?

ps- i'm from canada, we use similar but more colourful money, so i'm not just talking out my ass here. well, except for the loonies and toonies. man, imagine if you threw those at a verizon employee. head asplode!

b said @ 12:43am GMT on 9th Dec
and if your math comprehension and spelling are any indication, yes, you are from america.

ClovenHoof said @ 4:27am GMT on 9th Dec [Score:1 Funny]
let me help you out . . . a witch is someone who isn't necessarily a bitch but someone you do not want to piss off . . . which, of course makes sense if you believe in powers beyond your control.

Viking_Biochemist said @ 2:24pm GMT on 9th Dec
Um... Does this mean if someone says their ice cream cone costs 50 CENTS, it actually costs 50 dollars, as expressed in cents in their role as a subunit of a dollar, or 5000 cent?

According to your definition, it does.

My god. If I say something is 0.5 centimeters long, I do NOT mean that it is 0.5 meters, but I'm writing that in centimeters just for giggles. Do you have any comprehension whatsoever of what units are?

Arravis said @ 11:56pm GMT on 9th Dec
Ariz, you may want to duck and cover.

b said @ 11:54pm GMT on 8th Dec
are you serious? i count no less than 4 seperate people, by his words, quoted him a price of .002 CENTS per kilobyte, while he was actually charged .002 DOLLARS per kilobyte. for a full explanation, please relisten to the recording.

stoned_sheitan said @ 11:58pm GMT on 8th Dec [Score:5 Funny]
Obviously, Ariz is a future Verizon employee in the making.

sacrelicious said @ 12:39am GMT on 9th Dec
he'll probably earn upwards of 25,000 cents a year with that company!

stoned_sheitan said @ 12:46am GMT on 9th Dec
He can proudly be the only homeless man with a Wii.

sacrelicious said @ 12:52am GMT on 9th Dec [Score:1 Funny]
nah man, last time I passed an alley full of homeless people there was wii all over the place! it literally stunk of it.

jon341 said @ 12:02am GMT on 9th Dec
I'm sorry (I'm even more sorry that I'm posting at 3:50 am on a Friday night), but 1 cent = 1 penny. That issue seems to be the main point of contention here.

stoned_sheitan said @ 12:11am GMT on 9th Dec [Score:4 Funny]
No,no,no. No cents are dogs (which we also know are not ice cream cones). No dogs are pennies. Therefore no cents are pennies. Get with the program, son.

f00m@nB@r said @ 6:51am GMT on 9th Dec
but john holmes' pennies was incredibly long.

donnie said @ 6:55am GMT on 9th Dec
1 penny = £0.01 Americans don't have pennies.

lorkpoin said @ 9:14am GMT on 9th Dec
Sure we do. I happen to weigh 220£, or 22,000 pennies.

donnie said @ 10:44am GMT on 9th Dec
Right, and I've got to try paying for my shopping with a sack full of stones...

Barnabas_Truman said @ 2:04pm GMT on 9th Dec
Yap money:

sacrelicious said @ 2:33pm GMT on 9th Dec
in the 80's it was fashionable for young londoners to walk around with keyboards and keytars, and pay for goods and services by pounding notes.

Jallandhara said @ 12:11am GMT on 9th Dec
.00002 <=-- .002 cents Even the manage says "point zero zero two cents"

$.00002 * 35,893KB = $0.71786

$0.002 = ¢0.2 = two thousandths of a dollar
¢0.002 = $0.00002 = two onehundred-thousandths of a dollar

.002 dollars is not .002 cents. They say .002 cents per kilobytes, they have to change him .002 cents per kilobyte.

Jallandhara said @ 12:12am GMT on 9th Dec
manager

Jallandhara said @ 12:13am GMT on 9th Dec
charge

wtf is with my Rs tonight?

f00m@nB@r said @ 12:20am GMT on 9th Dec
noo yawka?

anyway, yeah. common usage is 0.34¢ == 34 cents.

stoned_sheitan said @ 12:27am GMT on 9th Dec
And that is why people today can't give correct change at Burger King.

Electrohacker01 said @ 5:39am GMT on 9th Dec
my faviorite is when they give me canadian change and I have to exoplain how that is worth LESS than the american equivelent

13ullet said @ 7:08pm GMT on 9th Dec
Why would you care if you get Canadian change, your ganna lose a whopping 5 cents there. Not worth your time.

revchoppy said @ 9:52am GMT on 9th Dec
wrong. 34cents has no decimal. But you can represent in dollars with a decimal.

f00m@nB@r said @ 10:17am GMT on 9th Dec
what i mean is this: amounts are commonly written as $12.34¢

benjamander said @ 10:25am GMT on 9th Dec [Score:1 Funny]
actually, they're more commonly written with several the leading zeroes and trailing zeroes to make it more accurate, ie, $00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
000000000000000000000000000000012.340000000000000000000
000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000¢

EPT said @ 3:07pm GMT on 9th Dec
Ah, now you've stuck a $ in there, which changes things significantly.

f00m@nB@r said @ 4:30pm GMT on 9th Dec

notice in things like tax forms where they have a dollars column and a cents column?

$	¢

EPT said @ 10:23pm GMT on 9th Dec
I must've missed the $ column in this commentry.

Naruki said @ 3:18pm GMT on 9th Dec
Where is it commonly done?

That usage is completely wrong. It's just like expressing someone's height as '5.10".

It is common for people to make really stupid fucking mistakes, true. But if that mistake is in an area you are paid to perform (such as basic arithmetic for people dealing with money), then it is uncommon and potentially damaging to your company.

Todomanna said @ 5:59pm GMT on 9th Dec
So... is that a tenth of a foot or ten inches?

sacrelicious said @ 4:18am GMT on 9th Dec [Score:2]
too much piracy. you ran out.

ebrawer said @ 12:13am GMT on 9th Dec
0.002 Cents x 35000 kB = 70 Cents
100 Cents / Dollar * 70 Cents = 0.7 Dollars

He's right. The problem is that when Verizon writes 0.002c, they don't intend for that "c" to be a real unit. They're saying you're paying in cents, and the price is 0.002 dollars.

They're incorrectly using units, and are thus setting themselves up to be abused or for people to be inadvertantly tricked like that guy.

I say they honour what they quoted since they restated it and assured him it was 0.002 cents, and then change their units to avoid the same problem.

ebrawer said @ 12:14am GMT on 9th Dec
Make that 1 Dollar / 100 Cents * 70 Cents = 0.7 Dollars, woops.

stoned_sheitan said @ 12:25am GMT on 9th Dec
That would be more defensible if the price were 0.02c. As it is, saying you owe "0.002 dollars" and that you're paying in cents implies that you're paying with a unit larger than the amount owed. If you're going to use hypothetical amounts, you have to do it all the way through. Therefore, 0.002c should be 2 thousandths of a cent.

ebrawer said @ 12:30am GMT on 9th Dec
I'm just saying what Verizon must have been thinking. Of course they're wrong.

Adam said @ 12:33am GMT on 9th Dec [Score:1 Insightful]
He's not trying to trick them. He was very careful to make sure he understood what the quote was, and now Verizon is attempting to re-negotiate the agreement after the fact. Basically, Verizon would need to argue that they were so stupid, and this guy knew they were so stupid, that as a big bad corporation they're incapable of doing simple math and that their version should apply instead of the original agreement. He's not tricking them, they're wrong, and he would win in court.

baulsaak said @ 12:38am GMT on 9th Dec
exactly. and since he was on the unlimited plan in the States, he had no idea what the per kb charge was to use as a reference.

ebrawer said @ 1:11am GMT on 9th Dec
That's exactly what I'm saying.

They're incorrectly using units, and are thus setting themselves up to be abused or for people to be inadvertantly tricked like that guy.

^ i.e. their stupidity in unit use deceived that guy (the customer).

I say they honour what they quoted since they restated it and assured him it was 0.002 cents, and then change their units to avoid the same problem.

^ they restated it and assured him it was 0.002 cents.

But yeah, it came to a point that they would have to admit that their language objectively indicates a twothousenth of a cent per kB, and thus their stupidity.

donnie said @ 7:29am GMT on 9th Dec
"Do you recognise that there is a difference between point-zero-zero-two dollars and point-zero-zero-two-cents?

...no"

I'd just send them 71 cents in the post, then. Let them take me to court if they like, lol.

rattus said @ 10:53am GMT on 9th Dec
they would then deactivate your service for nonpayment, charge you several hundred dollars per handset on your plan for a breaking-your-contract-fee and then send it off to collections to bone your credit.

WHERE IS YOUR LOL NOW D: D:

donnie said @ 11:00am GMT on 9th Dec
er...it's at the end of the post where I left it. Now can you turn that goddamned light off? All I can see are green spots.

Jewbacchus said @ 7:39am GMT on 10th Dec
he was talking to kimota, fuckwit.

Crysallis said @ 12:41am GMT on 9th Dec
Then Verizon should just say "Two cents per kilobyte". how difficult is that!? :B

stoned_sheitan said @ 12:48am GMT on 9th Dec
YOU'RE KILLING VERIZON'S MOJO

f00m@nB@r said @ 12:19am GMT on 9th Dec
d00d.

0.002 dollars = 0.2 cents

nbob said @ 7:44am GMT on 9th Dec
"...but quoting .002 of a dollar witch is not .002 cents"

hey I fixed the comment for you

sacrelicious said @ 12:21am GMT on 9th Dec
they're the ones with the accounting department. they got no excuse.

f00m@nB@r said @ 12:23am GMT on 9th Dec
they may need more than one counting dept, then.

Adam said @ 12:36am GMT on 9th Dec [Score:1 Funny]
"Department of People Who Were Paying Attention, Even a Little, in 6th Grade"

I fear they would only find a small handfull of staffers for that mess.

f00m@nB@r said @ 12:38am GMT on 9th Dec
a tension? sounds more like two.

utah said @ 1:49am GMT on 9th Dec
I'm thinking Verizon are twosholes.

Jallandhara said @ 12:39am GMT on 9th Dec
HAHAHA! SILLY BACKWARDS CANADIANS WITH YOUR MOON CURRENCY!

CHINGCHONG PINGPONGPING BLEEP BLORP!

........

*turns off Hannity/Colmes*

b said @ 12:42am GMT on 9th Dec
i will buy your hannity/colmes machine for .002 loonies.

freedude said @ 5:02am GMT on 9th Dec
Oh, it's not worth that much. Trust me.

Crysallis said @ 1:09am GMT on 9th Dec
I tried e-mailed Verizon customer support, but their form is broke and twice returned an internal server error. I tried to say:

I just finished listening to the ".002 cents" customer service recording and I am appalled. Service rep after service rep repeatedly state ".002 cents" as the cost of service, and yet your company refuses to correct an overcharge of 100 times the quoted amount! Not only did this recording demonstrate your employees' utter ignorance of remedial mathematics, it proved that your company cares little about overcharging its customers and accepting responsibility for mistakes. For a communications firm, you sure do an awful job of it. I'm not a customer, but after hearing of this, I will never be. Who in their right mind would? Apparently, Verizon chooses to bill for any amount, irregardless of what has been quoted!

/forthecause :B

Naruki said @ 3:32am GMT on 9th Dec
irregardless? Well, that doesn't communicate well. Naught whale et awl.

Baxter_UK said @ 4:09am GMT on 9th Dec
"Usage Note: Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing. Coined in the United States in the early 20th century, it has met with a blizzard of condemnation for being an improper yoking of irrespective and regardless and for the logical absurdity of combining the negative ir- prefix and -less suffix in a single term. Although one might reasonably argue that it is no different from words with redundant affixes like debone and unravel, it has been considered a blunder for decades and will probably continue to be so."

loomspace said @ 10:04am GMT on 9th Dec
But yet its use continues.

Dioxin said @ 11:06am GMT on 9th Dec
nondismisunirregardless

stoned_sheitan said @ 1:31pm GMT on 9th Dec
Antidisestablishmentarianism

Baxter_UK said @ 1:58pm GMT on 9th Dec
Indeed.

eIfish said @ 3:36pm GMT on 9th Dec
I blame Heinlein.

jonboynemo said @ 9:03am GMT on 10th Dec
i refuse to accept that "irregardless" is a word at all. neither is "orientate."

sacrelicious said @ 3:34am GMT on 9th Dec
well you know, it's probably too much to expect a company in such a high tech industry as FUCKING COMMUNICATIONS to have a system for people to FUCKING COMMUNICATE with their tech support that works properly.

I mean, it's not like they're in the FUCKING COMMUNICATIONS industry or anything, right?

benjamander said @ 10:32am GMT on 9th Dec
telecommunications. Communications is television.

sacrelicious said @ 11:19am GMT on 9th Dec
communications is the catagory, telecommunications is the subcatagory.

blackpsypher said @ 1:56am GMT on 9th Dec [Score:1 Underrated]
I have a funny feeling this is not an oversight on behalf of the Verizon accountants, I believe it is a ploy used to overbill customers. This is a very common mistake. Most people don't know the math and don't realize they're being shafted, so they never question it. Verizon makes out like a bandit and by keeping everyone at the bottom in the dark when confronted by customers who do know the difference the don't have to play dumb, because they are dumb. I think by the time the hassle is over most people would be happy to just get the correct rate and leave it at that.

If this is real, I smell class action.

Now if you'll pardon me I have a foil hat fitting in half an hour and can't be late.

utah said @ 2:18am GMT on 9th Dec [Score:2 Funny]
I don't get what you're all whinging about. 0.002 dollars = 0.002 cents = 0.002 gallons = 0.002 Million, Billion dollars. Clearly, Verizon owe him 0.002 Million, Billion dollars, but in kilobytes, which (I think) is hogsheads / 3.14159265.

utah said @ 2:34am GMT on 9th Dec
I have visions of Verizon employees trying to pay for things in yards, or pints.

kang said @ 6:41am GMT on 9th Dec
This is why metrics never caught on in the U.S.

themanwhoeatslettus said @ 7:56am GMT on 9th Dec
we are to fucking stuborn in europe that is why.

bEETch said @ 3:31am GMT on 9th Dec [Score:-1 WTF]
It is really 0.002 cents per KB, as per their quote. They did not misquote nor mischarge him. I might be wrong but i think the problem is, he must have used 35893 MEGABYTES, rather than KBs. If that's the case, it would be right.

Nobody uses only 35 megs in this era of internet any more. 35 gigs would be reasonable, and $71 for 35 gigs would be reasonable.

baulsaak said @ 3:42am GMT on 9th Dec [Score:2 Funny]
$0.002/kb * 35893 kb = $71.786

¢0.002/kb * 35893 kb = ¢71.786

¢71.786 = $0.71786

You might need this too:

http://www22.verizon.com/jobs/

You can use SE as a reference. We'll put in a good word for you.

sacrelicious said @ 3:44am GMT on 9th Dec
"retarded" is a good word. I like the word "retarded."

xeperi said @ 6:56am GMT on 9th Dec
So's "viridian."

relm said @ 12:25pm GMT on 9th Dec
I like "annex". Wait, what were we talking about?

J R R Tolkien said @ 1:19pm GMT on 9th Dec [Score:1 Underrated]
"Celler door" ftw.

J R Hartley said @ 12:27am GMT on 10th Dec
Fly Fishing.

EPT said @ 3:09am GMT on 10th Dec
'Onomatopoeic' is a good word, mainly because it's not onomatopoeic.

cardinal said @ 6:53am GMT on 10th Dec
My fave.

Jewbacchus said @ 7:40am GMT on 10th Dec
not cellar door?

jonboynemo said @ 9:17am GMT on 10th Dec
that's two words. or .002 words, same thing.

baulsaak said @ 4:10am GMT on 9th Dec [Score:1 WTF]
From verizonwireless.com:

Stay productive, responsive and connected while on the go, right from your laptop at average download speeds of 400 – 700 kbps

The Unlimited Data Plans and Features MAY NOT be used for any other purpose. Examples of prohibited uses include, without limitation, the following: (i) continuous uploading, downloading or streaming of audio or video programming or games; (ii) server devices or host computer applications, including, but not limited to, Web camera posts or broadcasts, automatic data feeds, automated machine–to–machine connections or peer–to–peer (P2P) file sharing; or (iii) as a substitute or backup for private lines or dedicated data connections.

This means, by way of example only, that checking email, surfing the Internet, downloading legally acquired songs, and/or visiting corporate intranets is permitted, but downloading movies using P2P file sharing services and/or redirecting television signals for viewing on laptops is prohibited. A person engaged in prohibited uses, continuously for one hour, could typically use 100 to 200 MBs, or, if engaged in prohibited uses for 10 hours a day, 7 days a week, could use more than 5 GBs in a month.

Anyone using more than 5 GB per line in a given month is presumed to be using the service in a manner prohibited above, and we reserve the right to immediately terminate the service of any such person without notice.

EPT said @ 3:05pm GMT on 9th Dec
Wow, that bites. They're saying that they'll only connect you for certain content.

I don't have a problem with 'Your account limit is 5GB, stay within it buddy', but when they limit what you can download, that gets my goat. Why should it matter to them if I'm downloading video or source code as long as I stay under the limit?

benjamander said @ 3:42pm GMT on 9th Dec
under normal compression schemes, text can be compressed for transmission more effectively than video, which is already highly compacted. they probably make more money by charging for the amount you end up with and transmitting much less.

Unavoidable Fate said @ 6:34am GMT on 9th Dec
you must have an INCREDIBLE fucking phone.

bEETch said @ 3:37am GMT on 9th Dec
Oh wait, if he used 35 gigs, and the cost is 0.002 cents per KB, the bill would amount to $710.

nbob said @ 3:52am GMT on 9th Dec [Score:1 Underrated]
this was the most painful thing I've listened to all month

dook_sucks said @ 6:51am GMT on 9th Dec
some other sites that have it wrong.

http://black-network.com/advertise.htm

.002 cent cost per 1000 = $2.00

dook_sucks said @ 7:03am GMT on 9th Dec [Score:1 Informative]
The more I see this mistake, the more it pisses me off. It's a big difference.

What is .002 cents?
Is that $00.002 or is that $00.00002 ?

What is 00.50 cents?
.50 cents = 1/2 cent = 1/2 a penny.
50 cents = 1/2 dollar = 50 pennies.
1/2 a penny != 50 pennies.

So .002 cents is 2/1000ths of a penny,
$00.002 is 2/100ths of a dollar, or (2/1000)(100 pennies) = 2 tenths of a penny.

So a penny will get you 5 of the second thing, but 500 of the first thing.

donnie said @ 7:14am GMT on 9th Dec
My fucking god, those people are thicker than week-old cowshit. How can you honestly be that stupid?

foobar said @ 9:44am GMT on 9th Dec
How intelligent do you really expect disposable phone jockeys to be?

nath said @ 11:16am GMT on 9th Dec
Well, do you remember in kindergarden when you had a picture of a box with 10 apples and a picture of a box with 1 apples and you had to tell the teacher how many different it is? Well the people this man was talking to cannot tell the difference between holding up 10 of the 10 apple pictures versus one 1 apple picture.

I expect them to have a kindergarden education, yes.

Kimota said @ 11:28am GMT on 9th Dec [Score:1 Informative]
Nope, they are trained to never admit any wrongdoing from the company. And to pass the call to each other until the complainer gives up. They were doing an excellent job.

donnie said @ 6:23pm GMT on 9th Dec
I tend to find that there are cases when one must distinguish between "doing an excellent job" and "doing what you're told". "I was only following orders..."

jonboynemo said @ 9:17am GMT on 10th Dec
quite right. those nazis did an excellent job. verizon=nazis.

Garr123 said @ 7:17am GMT on 9th Dec
I don't even consider myself adequate at math, but I understood his problem the first time he explained it. How thick can these reps be?

donnie said @ 7:22am GMT on 9th Dec [Score:2 Funny]
Verizon Grant Helps Teens Learn Math, Science at CEET

cweaver said @ 7:45am GMT on 9th Dec
Obviously, even Verizon thinks that kids need to learn Math and Science, so they don't end up working for Verizon Customer service.

nbob said @ 7:48am GMT on 9th Dec
Oh for the +1 Irony mod

wiinter said @ 8:13am GMT on 9th Dec [Score:1 Insightful]
Ah-hahahaha. In the guy's blog, one of the commentors, "Tha", posted this:

This post is retarded as noted by the undisputable proof below.

1) People are stupid. I know it, you know it, get used to it already.

2) Calling $0.002 point zero zero two cents is a common mistake among common people, get used to it already.

3) You talked for almost 2 hours on the phone over a $71 bill.

4) You yourself made mutliple math mistakes while grilling people on math and the semantics of saying .002 cents.

5) You explained the problem like a drunk crackhead with a learning disability. When you talk in circles and don't clarify what you mean then common people don't understand you. I have no idea about the first x people you spoke with but I could have shown Andrea where she was wrong in under 1 minute. It appears as if you are doing this on purpose.

6) You are a patronizing asshole when you speak. Talking to people in the background with quotes similar to "Oh God" and "I'm teaching math here" is not going to make someone take the time to help you.

7) This post will probably get on the first page of Digg. When your blog posts are the same drivel that the guys with 4 hours of work and 16 hours of video games per day will Digg and praise you for then it's gay.

1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 7 = Retarded

donnie said @ 8:38am GMT on 9th Dec
He has a point - the guy does make a few occasional errors in terminology, but at least once he corrects himself. He's obviously not a teacher and, quite justifiably, was probably losing his mind just trying to keep cool. I excuse his errors on this basis. I would have been a far more patronising asshole much sooner than he managed to hold out for. Deride him for being petty over $71, but the world has for too long rewarded idiots for nothing. I'd pursue the matter just on principle and donate the $71 to charity when I got it back - just to prove a point. Steal from the rich and give to the poor - somehow it's particularly sweet when the rich are cro-magnon mongs.

captainstubing said @ 2:33pm GMT on 9th Dec
"mongs"

I'm going to start using 'Mongs' in conversation if you dont mind Donnie.

In this case don't STFU Donnie.

tomintroy said @ 1:13pm GMT on 9th Dec [Score:2 Insightful]
His points are without merit.

1) People are stupid. I know it, you know it, get used to it already.

Then should we dismantle the education system? Just accept stupidity?

2) Calling $0.002 point zero zero two cents is a common mistake among common people, get used to it already.

Hope he doesn’t work foe NASA (or my bank).

3) You talked for almost 2 hours on the phone over a $71 bill.

Yes hindsight is 20/20, how was he supposed to know it would take 2 hours to clear up when he initiated the phone call? Also using this lack of logic, police shouldn’t prosecute theft of $71 if it's going to take the government 2 hours or more to effect justice?

6) You are a patronizing asshole when you speak. Talking to people in the background with quotes similar to "Oh God" and "I'm teaching math here" is not going to make someone take the time to help you.

OMFG! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black, this guy needs to re-read his own thoughts in points 5 and 7!

eIfish said @ 1:48pm GMT on 9th Dec
3) That works out at $35 per hour, 14 times the Federal minimum wage, or 3.33 times the British minimum wage.

eIfish said @ 2:25pm GMT on 9th Dec
Make that 7 times the Federal minimum. Whoops.

uncletim said @ 8:59am GMT on 10th Dec
Math is hard

metternich said @ 8:53am GMT on 9th Dec
Audio is playing at 20 K bit / second

xverac said @ 9:20am GMT on 9th Dec
This doesn't surprise me. What surprises me is that someone with math skills didn't create a correct program to deal with this.

xverac said @ 9:21am GMT on 9th Dec
..err correctly in the first place.

SnakeGhost said @ 11:08am GMT on 9th Dec
The rate is probably just entered wrong in the system as $0.002 because the person putting it in read it that way. It should be entered in the system as $0.00002 and everything would be correct.

baulsaak said @ 1:45pm GMT on 9th Dec
No. $0.002 per kb is the correct rate. As far as the system goes, he was billed properly for his usage.

The problem is the operators are reading "$0.002" as "point zero zero two cents" (probably just because they see a decimal point). The operators should be saying "point zero zero two dollars".

He called the company in order to find out what the cost for usage is in Canada. The operator mistakenly quoted ¢0.002 per kb when he should have quoted $0.002 per kb. Since he was on an unlimited usage plan in the States, he had no point of reference to see the mistake. But intelligently, he had the operator quote this figure in the notes of his account.

He used his bandwidth accordingly while on his trip, thinking that the 35893 kb he used was only going to cost him ¢71.786 or $0.71786. Had he been quoted $0.002 per kb, I'm guessing he would have been more frugal with his internet airtime.

loomspace said @ 10:07am GMT on 9th Dec
billion
adj : (U.S.) denoting a quantity consisting of one thousand
million items or units; (Britain) denoting a quantity
consisting of one million million items or units [syn:
a billion]

Viking_Biochemist said @ 3:34pm GMT on 9th Dec
Billion - standard international nomenclature for the number expressed in scientific notation as 1*10^9.

1*10^3 = 1 000 = one thousand, Kilo
1*10^6 = 1 000 000 = one million, Mega
1*10^9 = 1 000 000 000 = one billion, Giga
1*10^12= 1000 000 000 000= one million million, one trillion, Tera

Thankyou.

f00m@nB@r said @ 4:26pm GMT on 9th Dec
only by force of american convention, despite the fact that all the former british colonies (i was raised in one) take "billion" to mean "1e12".

thank you for playing the "how provincial can the americans be?"

Viking_Biochemist said @ 4:50pm GMT on 9th Dec [Score:3 Interesting]
Uh... I'm not an American, dude, I'm an Aussie. And it's not exactly used here, in this former Brittish colony, by anyone I know except for a few pompous asses with no scientific training. If, say, I'm counting organisms in a sample and I find there are 2, 000, 000, 000 of them, I'm going to say "two billion" at an international scientific meeting, and everyone is going to know what I mean.

The prefixes given above were in our Brittish-published science textbooks. 10^9 = Giga, dude, and no scientist, engineer or tech I've ever met in this country would say "one gigalitre = one thousand million litres".

Thankyou for playing the "be needlessly rude" game.

jonboynemo said @ 9:18am GMT on 10th Dec
wow... even i know that, and i'm an undergrad. and a philosophy major.

donnie said @ 10:30am GMT on 9th Dec [Score:2]
A similar hilarious anecdote from Slashdot :

by Anonymous Coward

Had a similar situation with a major commercial bank a few years ago when I electronically transfered euros. This was payed with U.S. dollars. This was when a dollar was worth more than a euro.

When I received my statement, I was charged more dollars than euros. And so started hours of phone calls working my way up the bank's food chain.

I said $1 = 1.16 (euros - as Slashdot doesn't accept the euro symbol), so we therefore we can set up a proportion, cross multiple and solve for x. That was way too confusing, but thought almost everyone at least knew this by the 7th grade. A sample matrix got people confused.

When I spoke to the vice-president for international currency transaction, she was also confused and like many said their computer didn't make mistakes. I of course said it was not the computer, but the operator.

I said, remember when you took elementry algebra, you hated it, but your instructor said one day you would need to know it? She laughed and said she remembered. I said, now is that day. No longer laughing, she said they must do math differently in Europe. I was transfered to one of the banks currency traders.

The currency trader nearly laughed his head off. He corrected the transaction and noted this is why he makes the big dollars.

Ah, the dumbing of America. It's truly sad.

f00m@nB@r said @ 4:24pm GMT on 9th Dec
/me polishes up his CV and includes "elementary algebra" in the "education" section

Class1Product said @ 10:59am GMT on 9th Dec
he should have just told them .002 cents = .00002dollars

donnie said @ 11:06am GMT on 9th Dec
He did! About twenty point zero zero thousand times. I'm not sure how you could have missed it.

teknokracy said @ 12:21pm GMT on 9th Dec
Who the fuck is really getting screwed over here?
Me.
In Canada, you can't get unlimited data packages, you have a limit of 10mb a month or something ridiculous like that, and without a package it's FIVE CENTS PER KB!!!!!!!!

eIfish said @ 2:41pm GMT on 9th Dec [Score:1 Interesting]
"I don't know how to make this any clearer"

This is the Cancel. The. Account. guy!

Jallandhara said @ 6:34pm GMT on 9th Dec
I was wondering about that. They both sound exactly the same.

arteitle said @ 7:07pm GMT on 9th Dec
No. This guy calls himself "George Vaccaro" on his blog. The "cancel the account" guy is Vincent Ferrari.

eIfish said @ 3:07pm GMT on 9th Dec
A point raised on digg, which I feel shows insight into the conversation. These people aren't stupid; they are lying.

Most comments here are about how stupid these Verizon employees are, but I think that's not really what's going on here.
Notice when he speaks to the male manager-type guy that there is a very long silence after the math gets explained, and after the long silence the guy put him on hold again. I think this was a reaction to the guy knowing at that point that they were wrong BUT they have been trained not to admit anything.

Also, notice when the female manager confidently insists that the math is right, then as he walks her step-by-step through the math and asks her how she would express these number on paper, she suddenly balks and admits that she can't follow his math and excuses herself with "I'm not a mathematician", at this point I have no doubt that she knows he's right but has been trained not to admit it at all costs.

So for those of you who are scratching your heads as to how these employees can be so stupid, just listen to the recording with that in mind, it's pretty obvious why they "didn't understand".

baulsaak said @ 3:21pm GMT on 9th Dec
I think they guy who posted that is giving the Verizon reps more credit than they deserve. There's no conspiracy, they're just not understanding the concepts of units of measure.

Here's a pdf of Verizon's wireless internet access rates. Page 2 has the per kb pricing:

http://www.hp.com/sbso/wireless/MNY50079-VZAccessPricing-V1b.pdf

monkeytooth said @ 4:23pm GMT on 9th Dec
joseph K makes a call

cardinal said @ 7:25am GMT on 10th Dec
My 0.002 cents

In South Africa, we have one (1 or 1.00) phone company, the government owned Telkom. The hatred internet users here have for them is, to be mild, unfathomable and biblical in proportion.

Stories and tales of tomfuckery here:

http://hellkom.co.za/

We purchased a broad band package from them. Three months, which is how long it usually takes, if not longer, it gets activated. We use it for one month. After a month, the line goes down. My house mate, the head nerd in charge, phoned them to find out why.

According to them, we'd never had a broadband connection, ever, and would have to apply, wait and get one activated like everyone else.

He spent two hours on the phone to them trying to explain that we definitely had the connection otherwise, where would all this porn have come from (not in those exact words). After two hours, he loses it, demands to speak to a manager, the operator goes silent. He snaps like a dry twig, "blacks out" as he calls it (we think he says this for legal reasons), and when he knows what he's doing again, it's Telkom phoning him to tell him they're planning on pressing charges.

In other news, it's cheaper to fly to Hong Kong and go to an internet cafe there to download 100gigs of data, than it would be to do it from your home in South Africa...

click

Maths:

Telkom
Line speed = 1MB per second
Download size = 100GB
Estimated download time = 9,5 days
ISP (34 x 3GB accounts @ R269) = R9 146,00
Line rental (ADSL) = R680,00
Line rental (residential voice) = R92,28
Total = R9 918,28

Hong Kong
Line speed = 1GB per second
Download size = 100GB
Estimated download time = 13 minutes
Flight (South African Airways) = R7 942,00
Internet café (average cost @ HK$20) = R17,43
Total = R7 959,43

Difference: Hong Kong is cheaper by R 1 958,85

Telkom says:

"Not many people would use that many gigabytes in South Africa."

Jewbacchus said @ 7:42am GMT on 10th Dec
So I might not be paying rent but I'll defnitely be chipping on the internets...